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9 hours ago, HOPEFULshould said:

Prospects are dim because for everything because of gpa... should have graduated last year and now I'm just doing 1-2 courses to graduate, can't find a job. I have a lot to do yet it seems I'm doing nothing and It takes so much energy to consistently justify myself to others. I know I am smart and capable but everything has been ruined. This world isn't fair, I've done so much work and its all for nothing so I don't know what the point of going on in a world where your own ambitions are completely inaccessible to you is.

I know the feeling.... where everything is so overwhelming that it's not like you actively want to kill yourself, but the thought that you might just die from the pain is welcome because then you would stop feeling anything. From what others are saying, your GPA isn't that bad, and your ambitions are not inaccessible to you. Your GPA isn't the problem - whatever is causing you to feel this way is. How you are feeling is out of proportion with the reality, and that means you need some help, not just from us but from people better equipped to help you through these feelings, starting with your doctor. 

You don't have to justify yourself to others or compare yourself to them. Try to tune out the people, on here or elsewhere, who are talking about their law school applications and acceptances. Let go of the expectation that the world is going to or should be fair or that there is only one path for you in life. It might sound cheesy but it really is true that failure is an inevitable part of life and in our biggest failures, we often find our greatest opportunities. Lots of other people have also dealt with disappointments and have got through them. One of the worst times and biggest mistakes of my life turned out to give me a whole new path forward that made me stronger, so I know this is true. Someday you will look back on this terrible time in your life and smile to think of how far you have come - you don't really want to die, and you will eventually find a place. 

I hope you find a way to feel better soon. Feel free to message me if you want. 

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When I started my current job less than a year ago I went out to lunch with my mentor, a well-respected local lawyer in his 60s. A good portion of the lunch conversation went like this: 

Me: What do you wish you had known starting out? What would you do differently? Do you have any advice for me starting out? etc. etc.

Him: How terrible this job is. I would have been a dentist. Start thinking of your exit strategy now. You probably don't want to do this forever. It's not a healthy job - it's stressful, some of the experiences and situations are very negative, bad files will keep you up at night, you'll experience a high level of stress, you'll feel compelled to work more than you should, and you probably won't make enough money for any of that to be worth it. 

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31 minutes ago, BringBackCrunchBerries said:

When I started my current job less than a year ago I went out to lunch with my mentor, a well-respected local lawyer in his 60s. A good portion of the lunch conversation went like this: 

Me: What do you wish you had known starting out? What would you do differently? Do you have any advice for me starting out? etc. etc.

Him: How terrible this job is. I would have been a dentist. Start thinking of your exit strategy now. You probably don't want to do this forever. It's not a healthy job - it's stressful, some of the experiences and situations are very negative, bad files will keep you up at night, you'll experience a high level of stress, you'll feel compelled to work more than you should, and you probably won't make enough money for any of that to be worth it. 

I like how he chose a(nother) notoriously depression and suicide prone profession.

Just because you've survived 6 decades and accomplished something in law does not mean you've learned anything about happiness. 

I'd think you have fewer exit options as a dentist, as well.

Edited by QuincyWagstaff
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32 minutes ago, QuincyWagstaff said:

I'd think you have fewer exit options as a dentist, as well.

Well there's ....  fuck. You're right. I guess if you start making comments on what you see in other peoples' mouths and performing minor procedures on people who are unconscious, you're going to ruffle some feathers around the office. 

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1 hour ago, QuincyWagstaff said:

I like how he chose a(nother) notoriously depression and suicide prone profession.

Just because you've survived 6 decades and accomplished something in law does not mean you've learned anything about happiness. 

I'd think you have fewer exit options as a dentist, as well.

That was more or less my takeaway. I have learned that, despite his relative legal success and good reputation, he is horrendous at self-care (in a lot of areas). 

Some self help books will tell you that life is suffering except to the extent that we can mitigate suffering and introduce the good stuff. Our profession is exactly the same. Maybe it's a magnification of the general problem, but we still have the opportunity to pokes holes in the shit and make it (and our lives) less stinky. The NICE thing about law is that the autonomy needed to actually poke holes in that shit is within our grasps - you can't say that for a lot of jobs. 

I've never really thought about dentistry but I did dabble with medicine while an undergrad and a lot of doctors absolutely hate their jobs as well. 

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I remember in law school we had a dentist doing the program half-time.

The fact that he had a well paying job, yet was willing to go through law school to get out of it, told me a lot about dentistry.

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OP, I want to echo what others have said, and just know that all of us have our share of dark times, trust me, it'll pass.

Go see a psychologist, it helps. You might say that you know what they would say already, but still, it's helpful.

Try martial arts, especially boxing; it helps you cool down.

Edited by krnprykt

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4 hours ago, Malicious Prosecutor said:

I remember in law school we had a dentist doing the program half-time.

The fact that he had a well paying job, yet was willing to go through law school to get out of it, told me a lot about dentistry.

You think. I have a hard time imagining a worse profession than dentistry. Who wouldn’t go to law school to avoid that. 

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7 hours ago, Constant said:

You think. I have a hard time imagining a worse profession than dentistry. Who wouldn’t go to law school to avoid that. 

I think it suffers from a lot of the same pitfalls as law. People don't realize going in:

  • how much of a business it is - you have to know how to run a practice, time management, accounting, chasing clients, etc. If you want to make money in either industry, you need to understand that.
  • How the idea of practice is very different from real life practice - a lot of hustle, moving from one task to the next to maximize efficiency etc (have you ever seen a dentist popping around in a 4 chair practice?); and
  • how saturated the market is becoming (although this is much worse for dentists. Don't expect to start a practice in the inner city, you have to buy one out. And the profession is filled with awful (likely illegal) non-competes).

I'm sure there are other similarities but I need to jump to a new task to keep my billables up.

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29 minutes ago, setto said:

I think it suffers from a lot of the same pitfalls as law. People don't realize going in:

  • how much of a business it is - you have to know how to run a practice, time management, accounting, chasing clients, etc. If you want to make money in either industry, you need to understand that.
  • How the idea of practice is very different from real life practice - a lot of hustle, moving from one task to the next to maximize efficiency etc (have you ever seen a dentist popping around in a 4 chair practice?); and
  • how saturated the market is becoming (although this is much worse for dentists. Don't expect to start a practice in the inner city, you have to buy one out. And the profession is filled with awful (likely illegal) non-competes).

I'm sure there are other similarities but I need to jump to a new task to keep my billables up.

Might be some similarities between the businesses. Are none between the work environments. Someone’s mouth versus say a boardroom or a nice restaurant. 

Edited by Constant
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In my other life I work in emergency management (part of trying to stay healthy eh!)

That is one area where i have seen a real shift in perspective around mental health.  It still needs work, don't get me wrong, but the change from - oh if you can't handle a little blood and guts this isn't for you, and "drink it off" to today's debriefs, mental resiliency training and proactive approaches is night and day.

The legal profession has been talking about this in the corners and around the periphery for too long in my opinion.

We still hold up as pillars people who are living really unhealthy lives.

We still don't take care of people that deal with just totally horrible situations on a daily basis.

I did one child porn case when I was just starting out and still get actual physical symptoms when I think about it.  How legal professionals (defense, crown or judge) go though some of the child abuse trials that you hear about without some level of assistance is beyond me.  I really hope they get the help they need.

As a first-responder, if I go to an incident where someone is stabbed.  I will likely go back to the hall, fill out a form (I know weird eh - but PTSD is cumulative- so we want to make sure we are tracking exposure), I will do a debrief with my crew, if we have any issues/symptoms we can take it up the chain and professionals will be brought in.  We then talk about healthy approaches to what we have dealt with-  exercise to help flush adrenaline, mindfulness, talking with our team) we will be reminded of the symptoms of PTSD, our family are invited to talk to our mental health practitioners and most importantly we commit to watching out for each other. 

The defense counsel who will be going through all the gory details of that incident with the victim, perpetrator with the family of both right behind him or her gets what?

We do  have the Lawyers Assistance Program - which I encourage all students and lawyers to learn about hopefully prior to needing it - http://lapbc.com/

I just think we need to be serious about this issue and it requires a culture shift.

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Thanks to all  who responded here and through messenger - some things to think about ...

Edited by HOPEFULshould
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11 hours ago, Rumpy said:

In my other life I work in emergency management (part of trying to stay healthy eh!)

That is one area where i have seen a real shift in perspective around mental health.  It still needs work, don't get me wrong, but the change from - oh if you can't handle a little blood and guts this isn't for you, and "drink it off" to today's debriefs, mental resiliency training and proactive approaches is night and day.

The legal profession has been talking about this in the corners and around the periphery for too long in my opinion.

We still hold up as pillars people who are living really unhealthy lives.

We still don't take care of people that deal with just totally horrible situations on a daily basis.

I did one child porn case when I was just starting out and still get actual physical symptoms when I think about it.  How legal professionals (defense, crown or judge) go though some of the child abuse trials that you hear about without some level of assistance is beyond me.  I really hope they get the help they need.

As a first-responder, if I go to an incident where someone is stabbed.  I will likely go back to the hall, fill out a form (I know weird eh - but PTSD is cumulative- so we want to make sure we are tracking exposure), I will do a debrief with my crew, if we have any issues/symptoms we can take it up the chain and professionals will be brought in.  We then talk about healthy approaches to what we have dealt with-  exercise to help flush adrenaline, mindfulness, talking with our team) we will be reminded of the symptoms of PTSD, our family are invited to talk to our mental health practitioners and most importantly we commit to watching out for each other. 

The defense counsel who will be going through all the gory details of that incident with the victim, perpetrator with the family of both right behind him or her gets what?

We do  have the Lawyers Assistance Program - which I encourage all students and lawyers to learn about hopefully prior to needing it - http://lapbc.com/

I just think we need to be serious about this issue and it requires a culture shift.

Seeing horrible things is definitely one of the bad parts of being defence counsel. Most people I know cope with a combination of gallows humour, alcohol/drugs and venting to colleagues. I find that it is hard to admit it bothers you because you don't want to look weak, and I personally have never seen anyone to talk about those things. 

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On 2/8/2019 at 4:17 PM, HOPEFULshould said:

Thanks to all  who responded here and through messenger - some things to think about ...

I know it is tough, but there are tonnes of other folks out there just like you. It sucks not being able to talk about these things openly because law schools aren't yet ready to have a serious discussion about mental health and the horrendously negative role they play in crushing the spirits of amazing people. Just know that law school isn't everything. Being wrapped up in it (or in practice) can warp one's view of the bigger picture, but even those with good jobs don't have a guarantee on the other things in life that, imo, actually matter. Family, friends, your hobbies, your health - all of these things are way more important than whether or not you managed to break into the ivory towers. If you need someone to talk to, feel free to message me too.

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Lissen, bub. It takes a brave person to write a post like this. But you can't make a habit of it. Get help -- Hegdis et al have given you some good advice. Those people will help you as part of the legal community whether or not you are a lawyer yet -- or used to be one as the case may be. Realise that no job is worth dying over. Your parents (well, at least your mother) would miss you terribly. Yes, the profession can be brutal. My Dad's a shrink. I used to think he'd have magic bullets. Nope: all he could ever say was, "Deal with it." Several people have said that to me over the years. I haven't always. I hope you can. 

Edited by kcraigsejong
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