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UofT 1L grades out - how bleak does it look?

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17 minutes ago, Luckycharm said:

I think this is even better

HH A+

H.   A

P.    B+

LP  B

So they don't have the equivalent of a C?

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1 hour ago, harveyspecter993 said:

So they don't have the equivalent of a C?

Dude you've gone through every permutation of layout now. An LP is a D or very low C. A P encompasses the C+ to B range. An H is a B+. An HH is an A. Those roughly map out onto the Osgoode curve.

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9 minutes ago, BlockedQuebecois said:

Dude you've gone through every permutation of layout now. An LP is a D or very low C. A P encompasses the C+ to B range. An H is a B+. An HH is an A. Those roughly map out onto the Osgoode curve.

I might be wrong but it seems like at U of T you can hide behind your grades in a way you couldn't at any other school. You're much more exposed with a C for instance but if you get a P at U of T then your'e given the benefit of the doubt about whether that's a C+ or B.

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Just now, harveyspecter993 said:

I might be wrong but it seems like at U of T you can hide behind your grades in a way you couldn't at any other school. You're much more exposed with a C for instance but if you get a P at U of T then your'e given the benefit of the doubt about whether that's a C+ or B.

Yes. That was pretty much the point of the new system. It hides the below average students to the detriment of the good ones. 

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It might be a good idea to leave it to students who actually attend U of T to answer questions on the grading system, since the rest of you don't seem to understand how it works.

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1 minute ago, erinl2 said:

It might be a good idea to leave it to students who actually attend U of T to answer questions on the grading system, since the rest of you don't seem to understand how it works.

I don't think it's overly hard to look at a grade distribution, map it onto grade distributions for other schools, and compare. 

 

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1 minute ago, BlockedQuebecois said:

I don't think it's overly hard to look at a grade distribution, map it onto grade distributions for other schools, and compare. 

 

If it was that simple, there wouldn't be more than a dozen posts here that are filled with conjecture.

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1 minute ago, erinl2 said:

If it was that simple, there wouldn't be more than a dozen posts here that are filled with conjecture.

Law students love to make conjecture and overanalyze. U of Ts grading system pretty clearly, by any reasonable definition, works to lump average and below average students together - whereas other schools do this less (still do to the extent that some don't give out B-s, or only give little Cs, etc.

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4 minutes ago, erinl2 said:

If it was that simple, there wouldn't be more than a dozen posts here that are filled with conjecture.

If only a U of T student would grace us with their presence. They could surely explain this incredibly complicated 15/30/45-55/10-0 grade distribution scale and somehow map it onto the much, much simpler 15/60/20/5 grade distribution. 

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It's often U of T students asking what their own grades mean, as in this thread, suggesting that it hasn't been well explained to them by whichever U of T entity is supposed to do that. 

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8 hours ago, BlockedQuebecois said:

If only a U of T student would grace us with their presence. They could surely explain this incredibly complicated 15/30/45-55/10-0 grade distribution scale and somehow map it onto the much, much simpler 15/60/20/5 grade distribution. 

At least two U of T students replied to the OP, and possibly a couple more. They were actually answering the OP's question and are not required to explain to everyone else how the grade distribution works.

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8 hours ago, providence said:

It's often U of T students asking what their own grades mean, as in this thread, suggesting that it hasn't been well explained to them by whichever U of T entity is supposed to do that. 

The OP asked what his/her OCI chances were, not what the grades mean. 

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And as we all know, responses on this forum are strictly limited to responses to the OPs question. No deviation shall be allowed. 

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1 hour ago, erinl2 said:

The OP asked what his/her OCI chances were, not what the grades mean. 

I thought they posted again and called the grading scheme "vague" and asked what average grades were, but perhaps I was wrong and that was someone else. (No sarcasm, I didn't go back and read it and I very well could be wrong.)

In any event, I agree that this is off-topic. I also agree with those who told OP it's impossible to predict OCI chances, so just do your best from here on in.

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1 hour ago, erinl2 said:

The OP asked what his/her OCI chances were, not what the grades mean. 

But doesn't that mean that the opinions of non-UT current students matter? That is, for OCI purposes, it will mostly be either past U of T grads (under prior marking scheme) or non U of T grads who are making decisions. So how they perceive the marks would seem to matter more. Especially if the back of the U of T transcript doesn't clearly explain or give equivalents. And if asked, how will current students like OP explain what their grades mean to others, aren't opinions on that relevant to the original post?

Does:

"
Faculty of Law Grading System
Grade    Meaning    Guideline    Description
HH    High Honours    15%    Elite performance relative to class.
H    Honours    30%    Superior performance relative to class.
P    Pass with Merit    45-55%    Strong performance.  The most common mark.
LP    Low Pass    up to 10%    Adequate performance to pass, but significantly below the standard of the class."

https://handbook.law.utoronto.ca/guidelines-and-procedures/grading-and-honoursdistinction-standing

Really lead someone to think, oh, a P, this is an impressive student because it uses the word strong, but also common? Or is it more likely to leave them thinking, oh, they just passed, or they're just average?

Comparing with Osgoode student handbook:

"A+/A: Excellent
B+/B: Good
C+/C: Acceptable
D+/D: Marginal
F: Fail"

Again, 3rd party won't necessarily know or look that up, but don't the descriptions correspond with how they'll tend to perceive law school grades anyway?

https://www.osgoode.yorku.ca/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/2018-Student-Handbook.pdf

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The OP is a student at U of T. Those with reason to know have provided responses that are accurate: the OP is still in the running for 2L OCIs, provided they have a stronger second semester.

What is the point of trying to convert grades, here? Perhaps folks from Osgoode or Queen's or wherever are curious what their grades mean for 2L OCIs. I really can't comment, because I don't have a clue what grades one needs to get OCIs at those schools.

Even assuming we can map U of T grades onto grades at another school, at that point any comparison would be premised on the assumption that it doesn't matter what school your grades are from. I know some people have a deeply-held belief that this is the case, but in any case it's irrelevant to the OP and students from other law schools with the same question.

I feel like this topic has been addressed ad nauseam in other threads. I don't see why every thread dealing with U of T has to deteriorate into some thinly-veiled comparison between law schools and the merits of their respective grading systems. 

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@onepost.  Exactly.  This has been the grading system for 6 or 7 years now. Employers don't seem to be having any issue with it.  And on that note, I think the OP has received the information he/she requires from U of T students.  

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