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10% tuition cut at Ontario law schools?

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I saw that the Ontario government is expected to cut tuition fees for domestic students by 10% beginning in fall 2019. Does anyone know if this will affect law students/schools as well? 

 

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I doubt it since there are no controls on what professional programs can charge.

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I was under the impression that once established, graduate and professional programs are capped at a 5% increase per year (implemented by the previous Liberal government only over the last few years). As an applicant, I'm just hoping that this doesn't cause schools to create/increase any uncapped/additional fees to close the funding gap. It would also be extremely unfortunate if OSAP was revamped (again) to better correlate with the decrease in tuition, which would have a compounding negative impact on students in professional programs. Hard to say though without any real details having been released. 

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I am very concerned about what this could mean for law students, especially since I am one entering first year next September at U of Ottawa. All this government has done is slash programs and give handouts to business. I wouldn't be surprised if they announced that they are reversing all changes made to OSAP under the Liberals. Even those changes were inadequate considering the level of student debt in this province, but they were still a major help and far better than nothing at all.

Like many, I will be requiring the assistance of OSAP for the next three years. In 2018, I was projected to receive the maximum amount (around $15-16K) and only required to pay back half of it. If they reverse the changes made to OSAP, without lowering tuition for professional degrees, this government 'for the people' may result in me, and many others starting law school next year, accumulating up to an additional $20k in student debt over the next three years of legal studies. That is atrocious. 

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1 hour ago, PureComedy88 said:

I am very concerned about what this could mean for law students, especially since I am one entering first year next September at U of Ottawa. All this government has done is slash programs and give handouts to business. I wouldn't be surprised if they announced that they are reversing all changes made to OSAP under the Liberals. Even those changes were inadequate considering the level of student debt in this province, but they were still a major help and far better than nothing at all.

Like many, I will be requiring the assistance of OSAP for the next three years. In 2018, I was projected to receive the maximum amount (around $15-16K) and only required to pay back half of it. If they reverse the changes made to OSAP, without lowering tuition for professional degrees, this government 'for the people' may result in me, and many others starting law school next year, accumulating up to an additional $20k in student debt over the next three years of legal studies. That is atrocious. 

While I can sympathize with your struggle of paying for school, the OSAP changes have not helped everyone.

My parents have chosen not to help me with my underaged expenses, and I am completely fine with that. I have managed to get by while working and with OSAP.

When OSAP made their changes my funding was cut in half from my second year of undergrad to my third. The "free rides" (I don't mean this literally) OSAP is offering had to be payed by someone right? The struggle you say may happen for you in the coming years is one that is already felt by nearly every OSAP student that does not receive their parents financial support, yet have their funding based on their parents income.

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20 minutes ago, thedraper said:

While I can sympathize with your struggle of paying for school, the OSAP changes have not helped everyone.

My parents have chosen not to help me with my underaged expenses, and I am completely fine with that. I have managed to get by while working and with OSAP.

When OSAP made their changes my funding was cut in half from my second year of undergrad to my third. The "free rides" (I don't mean this literally) OSAP is offering had to be payed by someone right? The struggle you say may happen for you in the coming years is one that is already felt by nearly every OSAP student that does not receive their parents financial support, yet have their funding based on their parents income.

That sucks! What would you like to see the government do? I'm also curious about the exact change that resulted in your funding being cut between your second / third year and how it was related to the most recent changes. As we all know, the 'free tuition' thing was a hoax, especially if one group of students is receiving extra support at the expense of another. They shouldn't be assuming that people from 'high' income households (also, don't mean that literally) all have parents who are willing to assist them with tuition and living expenses. I should note that I'm 30 and haven't been in school for 7 years so kind of drifted away from following student politics and am no expert regarding the ins and outs of OSAP. I was also privileged enough to never have to apply for OSAP until now because my parents helped pay for my undergrad tuition (although we are far from rich), but I did work throughout my undergrad and master's programs to afford rent and living expenses. 

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4 minutes ago, PureComedy88 said:

That sucks! What would you like to see the government do? I'm also curious about the exact change that resulted in your funding being cut between your second / third year and how it was related to the most recent changes. As we all know, the 'free tuition' thing was a hoax, especially if one group of students is receiving extra support at the expense of another. They shouldn't be assuming that people from 'high' income households (also, don't mean that literally) all have parents who are willing to assist them with tuition and living expenses. I should note that I'm 30 and haven't been in school for 7 years so kind of drifted away from following student politics and am no expert regarding the ins and outs of OSAP. I was also privileged enough to never have to apply for OSAP until now because my parents helped pay for my undergrad tuition (although we are far from rich), but I did work throughout my undergrad and master's programs to afford rent and living expenses. 

Ideally I'd like to see OSAP move away from relying on parental income. But honestly I don't know how else they could do it, it's tough to say.

I don't see how the free tuition thing was a hoax. My roommate gets a massive grant from OSAP (covering tuition) and some extra in the form of a loan to cover living expenses. The year she got a massive boost to her grant was the year my funding got slashed. I can only imagine OSAP applicants with higher income parents in one way or another subsidized those massive grants.

Ironically, my roommate gets help from her parents, while I have just had to grind out more hours at work. Not ideal, but it's what we've got.

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1 minute ago, thedraper said:

Ideally I'd like to see OSAP move away from relying on parental income. But honestly I don't know how else they could do it, it's tough to say.

I don't see how the free tuition thing was a hoax. My roommate gets a massive grant from OSAP (covering tuition) and some extra in the form of a loan to cover living expenses. The year she got a massive boost to her grant was the year my funding got slashed. I can only imagine OSAP applicants with higher income parents in one way or another subsidized those massive grants.

Ironically, my roommate gets help from her parents, while I have just had to grind out more hours at work. Not ideal, but it's what we've got.

You are making an assumption though about the source of funding based on something that happened in relation to your roommate. Do you have any other evidence or is there other info out there?

Regardless, it's my understanding that it isn't actually free tuition because it is a series of grants that are given to individuals based on means and can be affected by things such as the level of savings they have in their bank account. Only if you meet a certain number of conditions (i.e. so many years out of school, your parents make under a certain amount of money per year) do you actually get 'free tuition' and even then it's provided through OSAP. Free tuition would literally mean free tuition, as in no OSAP, no means testing, nothing like that....

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3 hours ago, PureComedy88 said:

I am very concerned about what this could mean for law students, especially since I am one entering first year next September at U of Ottawa. All this government has done is slash programs and give handouts to business. I wouldn't be surprised if they announced that they are reversing all changes made to OSAP under the Liberals. Even those changes were inadequate considering the level of student debt in this province, but they were still a major help and far better than nothing at all.

Like many, I will be requiring the assistance of OSAP for the next three years. In 2018, I was projected to receive the maximum amount (around $15-16K) and only required to pay back half of it. If they reverse the changes made to OSAP, without lowering tuition for professional degrees, this government 'for the people' may result in me, and many others starting law school next year, accumulating up to an additional $20k in student debt over the next three years of legal studies. That is atrocious. 

Lawyers aren't exactly "the people". 

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1 hour ago, PureComedy88 said:

You are making an assumption though about the source of funding based on something that happened in relation to your roommate. Do you have any other evidence or is there other info out there?

Regardless, it's my understanding that it isn't actually free tuition because it is a series of grants that are given to individuals based on means and can be affected by things such as the level of savings they have in their bank account. Only if you meet a certain number of conditions (i.e. so many years out of school, your parents make under a certain amount of money per year) do you actually get 'free tuition' and even then it's provided through OSAP. Free tuition would literally mean free tuition, as in no OSAP, no means testing, nothing like that....

No I don't and cannot have evidence beyond the reason an OSAP rep gave me, which was basically sorry but others need the money more than you. I know my parents income, I know my roommate's parents income, and I know that after the "free tuition" announcement which my roommate qualified for, her funding sky-rocketed and mine was cut. I'm simply putting the pieces together. Unless OSAP got more funding that I am not aware of, how were they going to fund the increase in funding for students with parents making under a certain threshold?

Sure, in your sense free tuition is a marketing thing, and I suppose it is since it's not free at the school level itself. But what difference does it make? OSAP is still going to give grants that will cover tuition.

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15 minutes ago, thedraper said:

No I don't and cannot have evidence beyond the reason an OSAP rep gave me, which was basically sorry but others need the money more than you. I know my parents income, I know my roommate's parents income, and I know that after the "free tuition" announcement which my roommate qualified for, her funding sky-rocketed and mine was cut. I'm simply putting the pieces together. Unless OSAP got more funding that I am not aware of, how were they going to fund the increase in funding for students with parents making under a certain threshold?

Sure, in your sense free tuition is a marketing thing, and I suppose it is since it's not free at the school level itself. But what difference does it make? OSAP is still going to give grants that will cover tuition.

The fact that you are not receiving free tuition means it's not free, plain and simple

 

1 hour ago, BlockedQuebecois said:

Lawyers aren't exactly "the people". 

We're talking about students

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The Ontario PCs have announced some changes to university funding and OSAP. I've quoted some of the changes (from this Macleans article) and embedded some questions I have.

 

Quote

Under a new framework, tuition would decrease by 10 per cent for the 2019-2020 year, then be frozen for the following year.

From my understanding, this only applies to regulated programs and law schools are deregulated (please correct me if I'm wrong).

I've heard others speculate that universities will make up for this cut by increasing tuition for deregulated programs. Everyone seems to be focusing their attention to international students, but since law schools are deregulated, can we also expect to see an increase in tuition? 

(Side question, not specifically related to Ford's changes: if law schools are deregulated, can law schools change their tuition whenever they want to whatever they want? Because... Yikes! That sounds dangerous! It'd be nice if they gave a 3-year projection on tuition to every entering class so students can plan accordingly.)

 

Quote

The province says the Ontario Student Assistance Plan grants had become unsustainable and it was time to refocus it to provide help to students in the most financial need.

...

Training, Colleges and Universities Minister Merrilee Fullerton announced today that family income thresholds for the grant would be lowered and instead provide more loans.

She says most of the of grants will go to students whose families have an income of less than $50,000, but didn’t say what the cut off would be for a grant.

These details are vague. I suspect not, but does anyone have any more insight into this? I'm eager to know the new cut off for grants.

...

I was already stressing about the cost of law school and this announcement just brought me to a whole new level. I feel like I'm stuck in limbo! I just want to plan my finances and lay out some financial scenarios!! 

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2 hours ago, upgrayedd said:

Very interested, the press release states generally " Lowering tuition rates by 10 per cent for all students at every publicly-funded college and university in Ontario " I would hope that law students fit into the "all students" bucket.

https://news.ontario.ca/maesd/en/2019/01/affordability-of-postsecondary-education-in-ontario.html

Of course not.

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UofT law dean apparently said at a Faculty Council meeting that he thought law schools would be included in this.

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Doug Ford is such a tool

Edited by Trew
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38 minutes ago, Trew said:

Doug Ford is such a tool

Ontarians are bigger tools for voting the moron/dimwit/asshole into power.

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1 hour ago, pzabbythesecond said:

Ontarians are bigger tools for voting the moron/dimwit/asshole into power.

The majority of Ontarians did not vote them in

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