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darklightness

LSAT 177, really bad gpa

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A 1.0/177? Wow. 

I'm not in a position to give you advice, but that's a seriously impressive turnaround. When people post topics like this, that 177 LSAT score is usually hypothetical, but you pulled it off. 

Congrats on the great score and I wish you all the best. 

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I wanted to share my story with you, it's not entirely the same as your situation but I think it would interest you.

During the first three years after high school I studied in Arts and Sciences and I was forced to withdraw twice from the program. I basically failed every course I took. I think I have something like 13 or 14 F's on my transcript and only like a couple passing grades from those three years.

I took time off to figure myself out and then returned when I was finally serious. I changed to the business program and completed my degree in four years. I averaged a 3.6/4.0 over these four years, but this still only brought my cGPA up to 2.6/4.0. I wrote the LSAT once and scored a 166.

I'm definitely not competitive at every school across the country with my stats, but there are many schools that I am. I have already received offers at four schools for 2019 and I'm hoping to receive some more.

My advice to you would be to go take a couple more years of undergrad courses so you have at least a solid L2 GPA. The cumulative GPA won't matter as much once you have shown that the previous years are not a true reflection of your academic potential. Your LSAT score is incredible and with even a decent L2 would have to make your application hard to overlook. Then focus on applying at L2 schools and schools that drop enough credits to make you competitive like Calgary, Alberta, Saskatchewan, Dal, UNB, Western, Queen's, Manitoba.

Manitoba actually has a "Request for Elimination" you can submit. Based on certain factors you can request to exclude a previous program or portion of your transcript. Also, depending on your reasons for your poor performance before maybe you would be a good candidate for a "discretionary" application at some of the cGPA based schools?

Anyway, just wanted to provide you with some hope. I have a 2.6 cGPA, a 166 LSAT and 4 offers already.

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Any chance you could have a learning disability like discalcula or similar? 

That would certainly help a discretionary/access claim.

Either way, talk to some admissions offices about what you would need, but if you did get 2-3 years of a great GPA in a university program, you wouldn't need to worry about not being accepted to a law school. 

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6 hours ago, turbotom said:

I wanted to share my story with you, it's not entirely the same as your situation but I think it would interest you.

During the first three years after high school I studied in Arts and Sciences and I was forced to withdraw twice from the program. I basically failed every course I took. I think I have something like 13 or 14 F's on my transcript and only like a couple passing grades from those three years.

I took time off to figure myself out and then returned when I was finally serious. I changed to the business program and completed my degree in four years. I averaged a 3.6/4.0 over these four years, but this still only brought my cGPA up to 2.6/4.0. I wrote the LSAT once and scored a 166.

I'm definitely not competitive at every school across the country with my stats, but there are many schools that I am. I have already received offers at four schools for 2019 and I'm hoping to receive some more.

My advice to you would be to go take a couple more years of undergrad courses so you have at least a solid L2 GPA. The cumulative GPA won't matter as much once you have shown that the previous years are not a true reflection of your academic potential. Your LSAT score is incredible and with even a decent L2 would have to make your application hard to overlook. Then focus on applying at L2 schools and schools that drop enough credits to make you competitive like Calgary, Alberta, Saskatchewan, Dal, UNB, Western, Queen's, Manitoba.

Manitoba actually has a "Request for Elimination" you can submit. Based on certain factors you can request to exclude a previous program or portion of your transcript. Also, depending on your reasons for your poor performance before maybe you would be a good candidate for a "discretionary" application at some of the cGPA based schools?

Anyway, just wanted to provide you with some hope. I have a 2.6 cGPA, a 166 LSAT and 4 offers already.

Thank you so much for sharing! It really helps.

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6 hours ago, feraenaturae said:

Any chance you could have a learning disability like discalcula or similar? 

That would certainly help a discretionary/access claim.

Either way, talk to some admissions offices about what you would need, but if you did get 2-3 years of a great GPA in a university program, you wouldn't need to worry about not being accepted to a law school. 

Unfortunately, no... I was just being stupid, childish and irresponsible back then.

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1 hour ago, darklightness said:

Unfortunately, no... I was just being stupid, childish and irresponsible back then.

Hey, me too. Also lazy. 

It doesn't mean you don't/didn't have a learning disability (unless it was thoroughly investigated and assessed). I agree with the person who said it seems unlikely for someone who can get a 177 to be that bad at math, because of the general intelligence and logical reasoning required etc. But I don't understand people being bad at math anyway though. 

I hope you're okay with yourself now though. I have a similar background, and honestly, I just didn't have the skills I needed to be successful before. It sucks to still feel those negative labels attached to me, even though I have all those skills to be successful now. It just took me longer to build them and find my path, it sounds like for similar to reasons to you. 

PM me if you'd like more information. 

 

 

Edited by feraenaturae

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15 hours ago, turbotom said:

I wanted to share my story with you, it's not entirely the same as your situation but I think it would interest you.

During the first three years after high school I studied in Arts and Sciences and I was forced to withdraw twice from the program. I basically failed every course I took. I think I have something like 13 or 14 F's on my transcript and only like a couple passing grades from those three years.

I took time off to figure myself out and then returned when I was finally serious. I changed to the business program and completed my degree in four years. I averaged a 3.6/4.0 over these four years, but this still only brought my cGPA up to 2.6/4.0. I wrote the LSAT once and scored a 166.

I'm definitely not competitive at every school across the country with my stats, but there are many schools that I am. I have already received offers at four schools for 2019 and I'm hoping to receive some more.

My advice to you would be to go take a couple more years of undergrad courses so you have at least a solid L2 GPA. The cumulative GPA won't matter as much once you have shown that the previous years are not a true reflection of your academic potential. Your LSAT score is incredible and with even a decent L2 would have to make your application hard to overlook. Then focus on applying at L2 schools and schools that drop enough credits to make you competitive like Calgary, Alberta, Saskatchewan, Dal, UNB, Western, Queen's, Manitoba.

Manitoba actually has a "Request for Elimination" you can submit. Based on certain factors you can request to exclude a previous program or portion of your transcript. Also, depending on your reasons for your poor performance before maybe you would be a good candidate for a "discretionary" application at some of the cGPA based schools?

Anyway, just wanted to provide you with some hope. I have a 2.6 cGPA, a 166 LSAT and 4 offers already.

This is wonderful!

Are you still taking courses this semester?

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8 hours ago, NeverGiveUp said:

This is wonderful!

Are you still taking courses this semester?

No, I graduated May 2018.

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On 12/17/2018 at 11:08 PM, NeverGiveUp said:

Great LSAT score!

Congratulations!

The reality is that law schools in Canada need you to have an undergraduate degree (at least 3 years undergraduate studies). Even mature category (usually with 5 years work experience) needs at least 2 years undergraduate studies).

Can you transfer some of your credits from your  paralegal program to York?

Patently not true. 

I personally know of a current 1L student at an Ontario law school that does not have any undergrad studies to speak of, maybe a couple of credits in first year. 

This person did however have excellent work experience and great references. 

I am not by any means saying that this person I know is typical. You are correct that the vast majority of law students have at least a few years of undergrad study.  But it's not a hard and fast rule at all schools. 

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17 minutes ago, OWH said:

Patently not true. 

I personally know of a current 1L student at an Ontario law school that does not have any undergrad studies to speak of, maybe a couple of credits in first year. 

This person did however have excellent work experience and great references. 

I am not by any means saying that this person I know is typical. You are correct that the vast majority of law students have at least a few years of undergrad study.  But it's not a hard and fast rule at all schools. 

The degree exception at Osgoode is only made for mature students and only in very limited circumstances, where the applicant achieved so much in their career that there is more than enough evidence of ability to succeed at law school. At least, this is my understanding  

But for the vast majority of people, at least 2 years of study are required, if not a conferred degree. 

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What type of law are you interested in?

If I were in this circumstance I would be looking at whether any of the credits from the paralegal program can be transferred to a university. I would likely try to start an undergraduate program as soon as possible and then consider applying to law school when I had two years undergrad with good grades.

I would seriously consider finishing a full undergraduate degree while working as a paralegal. Life is not a race, and there is a lot that you can learn as a paralegal. 

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On 12/18/2018 at 11:03 AM, feraenaturae said:

Hey, me too. Also lazy. 

It doesn't mean you don't/didn't have a learning disability (unless it was thoroughly investigated and assessed). I agree with the person who said it seems unlikely for someone who can get a 177 to be that bad at math, because of the general intelligence and logical reasoning required etc. But I don't understand people being bad at math anyway though. 

PM me if you'd like more information. 

 

The non-quoted advice you gave is both helpful and reassuring; however,  judging OP's responses, he's fully under the impression that he/she does not have a learning disability, and evidently he/she clearly has little trouble actually learning based on his/her LSAT results. Id caution everyone against trying to make it appear as if there's a learning disability looming in order to fit into a discretionary category.

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If you were suspended, I think you have to clear that academic suspension before registering at any other university, and law schools will ask about that and you should not lie to them.

I would therefore speak to the university from which you were suspended and go through the process to get reinstated, then take some courses, which will restore your status and hopefully raise your GPA a bit. If you do well, this will show law schools you can now handle academic work.

I don't think you can apply "as is" with a suspension and a 1.0 GPA, even with an excellent LSAT score, but I think that there is hope for you if you fix the suspension first, so don't be in a rush.

I had an LSAT score similar to yours and very inconsistent and mediocre grades, and I was accepted to law school, so it certainly can be done. 

I would also disagree that low grades are necessarily due to a "learning disability." Immaturity and lack of focus are also very possible.

Good luck!
 

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I don't think that low grades = learning disability, or that one should make it appear they have one just to apply discretionary. I just was responding to the "really bad at math" aspect. It isn't unusual for math-related (and other) disabilities to go undiagnosed in otherwise intelligent/gifted children, who are then blamed and shamed for their lack of success. They can exist alongside immaturity and lack of focus, and I think they can cause lack of focus/drive because sucking at something is certainly demotivating. 

I did not intend to suggest anything other than it may be something to look into, if OP hasn't seriously considered it / been tested before. 

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I have a similar question to the OP, Should I ask it here to keep it to this thread or should I start a new one.  

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16 hours ago, Heubs77 said:

I have a similar question to the OP, Should I ask it here to keep it to this thread or should I start a new one.  

There is no charge to start a new thread.

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Transfer into the paralegal degree program at Humber; I believe you can get into year 3. Alternatively a 3-year degree at York with limited transfer credits. If you want it, go for it and you will get it, just don't give up and congrats on your transformation.

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you seem to do well on the curriculum that may catch your interest . This program perhaps may  serve you well.

by completion of two year study of the program combined with 177 of lsat, you can start to apply queen, Saskatchewan.  UofA , and other l2 schools.

western prefer cgpa, however, l2 trend will be placed on a greater emphasis.

http://calendar.carleton.ca/undergrad/undergradprograms/law/#courseinventory

https://carleton.ca/law/course-outlines-fall-winter-2018-2019/

Edited by akulamasusu

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