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MustHit165

30 Points in Less than 2 Months?

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Background:

My cold diagnostic score was about 135 (43% correct on 101 question test) two months ago. Have been studying casually since then, perhaps <10 hours in total because of school. Studying mainly with Mcgraw Hill prep's online course that accompanies the book.

I did an online practice test this morning and scored about 138 (45% correct on 101 question test).

Scenario:

- Goal score is 165.

- Registered for January 26th LSAT (about 6 weeks time).

- Will have time to study full time 40hrs or more a week.

- Current resources: The LSAT Trainer, Mcgraw Hill prep book (2017), Baron's Logic Games prep book, Baron's General prep book, Kaplan's LSAT Premier (2016-2017) prep book, and Princeton Review LSAT Decoded Prep Tests 72-76.

 - PT1 Results: Arguments 1 = 68% correct, Arguments 2 = 44% correct, Reading Comprehension = 28% correct, Logic Games = 38% correct

Questions:

1. What should I focus on with my current resources of books?

2. Should I buy the 7Sage online course to prep?

3. If you were in my shoes, how would you schedule your time?

4. Any other advice?

Edited by MustHit165

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Keep in mind that it’s quality over quantity and burnout is real. I’ve heard that 7Saga is VERY good, although very expensive, and I only used the free logic game explanations (which I found helpful).

Reading comprehension seems to be generally regarded as the most difficult to improve, while Logic Games is usually considered the easiest to improve. While I don’t necessarily have specific suggestions about how to improve or what exactly to do, if I were you, I would push the logic games for maximum score boost.

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If i were you I would go through the 7 sage course as fast as you can while still learning all the essential skills.  How long that takes depends on how quickly you can learn, but at this point you have a long ways to go.  Then start taking and reviewing practice tests, until you are scoring in your desired range.  It could take you a course plus 40 practice tests to achieve this (as it did in my case), or hopefully much less.  I think you will understand where you stand after you go through the course and then start doing a few tests. 6 weeks wouldn't have been realistic for me, but everyone learns at different paces.  

Whatever you do, I would also advise you not to study with all of the recent tests right away, as you are not ready to benefit from those materials.  You will only familiarize yourself with the questions, which will limit their use to you when you are actually scoring high enough.  This will hurt you down the road if you end up needing more time.  

 

 

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1 hour ago, TobyFlenderson said:

Keep in mind that it’s quality over quantity and burnout is real. I’ve heard that 7Saga is VERY good, although very expensive, and I only used the free logic game explanations (which I found helpful).

Reading comprehension seems to be generally regarded as the most difficult to improve, while Logic Games is usually considered the easiest to improve. While I don’t necessarily have specific suggestions about how to improve or what exactly to do, if I were you, I would push the logic games for maximum score boost.

Thanks for the feedback, Tony.

I was thinking of focusing on logic games and logical reasoning. I don't think my RC will get significantly better within 6 weeks time, although the annotation strategies did seem to help me better understand the passages (during drilling). RC seems to be a timing issue for me; it takes me awhile to read fast for comprehension.

For resources, yes, I agree less is probably more. 

Thinking of using the current books for their PTs and perhaps some sections on strategies.

But dedicating most time to The LSAT Trainer, Manhattan for Logical Reasoning, and 7Sage.

Thoughts?

Edit: 

On the topic of burnout.

I completed all my courses to graduate during this fall semester. I will have the next 6 weeks to study full time on the LSAT. This means no work, school, or other obligations. My plan is 4 hours in the morning and 4 hours in the evening dedicated to the LSAT.

Edited by MustHit165

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1 hour ago, 905 said:

If i were you I would go through the 7 sage course as fast as you can while still learning all the essential skills.  How long that takes depends on how quickly you can learn, but at this point you have a long ways to go.  Then start taking and reviewing practice tests, until you are scoring in your desired range.  It could take you a course plus 40 practice tests to achieve this (as it did in my case), or hopefully much less.  I think you will understand where you stand after you go through the course and then start doing a few tests. 6 weeks wouldn't have been realistic for me, but everyone learns at different paces.  

Whatever you do, I would also advise you not to study with all of the recent tests right away, as you are not ready to benefit from those materials.  You will only familiarize yourself with the questions, which will limit their use to you when you are actually scoring high enough.  This will hurt you down the road if you end up needing more time.  

 

 

Thanks for the reply, 905.

Definitely going to get 7sage. You think I should ditch mcgraw hill right now and just go over to 7sage immediately? 

Where can I get the most recent tests from 74 to 82?

Edited by MustHit165

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3 minutes ago, MustHit165 said:

Thanks for the reply, 905.

Definitely going to get 7sage. You think I should ditch mcgraw hill right now and just go over to 7sage immediately? 

Wherre can I get the most recent tests from 74 to 82?

I never used mcgraw, I can only say that 7sage was pretty good for me.  You can order most tests in books of 10 on amazon, but you might have to buy the last few individually.  If they get them online somehow make sure you print them out and use them with the answer key.  But as I said before, I wouldn't recommend touching these tests until you finish a course.  And at that point I would probably start with tests in the 40s or 50s.  Save the recent ones for when you are getting close to your target score.  

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7 minutes ago, 905 said:

I never used mcgraw, I can only say that 7sage was pretty good for me.  You can order most tests in books of 10 on amazon, but you might have to buy the last few individually.  If they get them online somehow make sure you print them out and use them with the answer key.  But as I said before, I wouldn't recommend touching these tests until you finish a course.  And at that point I would probably start with tests in the 40s or 50s.  Save the recent ones for when you are getting close to your target score.  

Sounds good. 7 Sage is a lock. Did you supplement anything with 7 Sage?

I'll check out Amazon for recent tests, thanks!

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Going from a 138 to a 165 in six weeks, especially when the 138 was not completely blind, may be unprecedented.

What did you score on each section?

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In order to pull a 30+ point jump off in six weeks, you'll need to learn a concept once, understand it perfectly the first time around, and then immediately apply that knowledge on practice tests before the real thing. 

It's going to be incredibly tough for you to do. 

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1 hour ago, chaboywb said:

Going from a 138 to a 165 in six weeks, especially when the 138 was not completely blind, may be unprecedented.

What did you score on each section?

PT1 Results: Arguments 1 = 68% correct, Arguments 2 = 44% correct, Reading Comprehension = 28% correct, Logic Games = 38% correct

I will admit my studying was not really efficient as the majority was going through the modules at a very fast paced. My intention is to complete the mcgraw course fast and switch to 7sage. But I think I am going to 7 sage immediately with The LSAT Trainer and possibly Logic Reasoning with Manhatten

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23 minutes ago, Tagger said:

In order to pull a 30+ point jump off in six weeks, you'll need to learn a concept once, understand it perfectly the first time around, and then immediately apply that knowledge on practice tests before the real thing. 

It's going to be incredibly tough for you to do. 

Motivated to do so. Hope it works out

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You probably don't have the best chances of going from a 138 to a 165 but let me share some tips that really helped me improve my scores. For logic games, watching 7sage's free online logic games explanations helped a lot. I would do a section of logic games, then watch the explanations, and then repeat the inferences they made, in the order that they made them, 10 times. This was hugely helpful for me and I ended up getting just one question wrong for LG on test day. For logical reasoning, Mike Kim's LSAT trainer is awesome. For reading comprehension, I tried lots of different approaches (7sage, Powerscore, LSAT trainer, Barons) and didn't find any one of them more helpful than the others. The key thing is just getting comfortable with one approach and using it consistently.

Edited by RickyBubbles01
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15 minutes ago, RickyBubbles01 said:

You probably don't have the best chances of going from a 138 to a 165 but let me share some tips that really helped me improve my scores. For logic games, watching 7sage's free online logic games explanations helped a lot. I would do a section of logic games, then watch the explanations, and then repeat the inferences they made, in the order that they made them, 10 times. This was hugely helpful for me and I ended up getting just one question wrong for LG on test day. For logical reasoning, Mike Kim's LSAT trainer is awesome. For reading comprehension, I tried lots of different approaches (7sage, Powerscore, LSAT trainer, Barons) and didn't find any one of them more helpful than the others. The key thing is just getting comfortable with one approach and using it consistently.

Sound advice, thanks!

How do the sections for logic games work on 7 Sage? 

I just bought prep tests 72 to 81 to accompany Mike Kim's Trainer and 1 month study schedule and will be basing alot of my study off the Trainer.

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22 minutes ago, MustHit165 said:

Sound advice, thanks!

How do the sections for logic games work on 7 Sage? 

I just bought prep tests 72 to 81 to accompany Mike Kim's Trainer and 1 month study schedule and will be basing alot of my study off the Trainer.

Sorry, I can't remember. 7sage's logic games method is actually posted online for free though. I'll post the link so you can go check it out if you want. 

https://7sage.com/how-to-get-a-perfect-score-on-the-logic-games/

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3 hours ago, MustHit165 said:

PT1 Results: Arguments 1 = 68% correct, Arguments 2 = 44% correct, Reading Comprehension = 28% correct, Logic Games = 38% correct

I will admit my studying was not really efficient as the majority was going through the modules at a very fast paced. My intention is to complete the mcgraw course fast and switch to 7sage. But I think I am going to 7 sage immediately with The LSAT Trainer and possibly Logic Reasoning with Manhatten

I may be misinterpreting this, but simply going through one set of instructional materials after another won’t necessarily result in knowing the material better. It’s better to chose one set of materials that best suits your learning style and go through that at a pace that allows you to understand and master the concept. Quantity and speed, as someone said earlier, is not always a good strategy. A 165 is a mastery score, that is, it means you can handle at least some of the toughest versions of questions.

I’ll cast another vote for 7Sage. I purchased their ultimate package and based my entire prep on it (with The LSAT Trainer as a supplemental). I was not disappointed. If you are deciding on what to use given the little time you have, 7Sage is solid. 

Honestly, I don’t think a 30+ score jump is likely for someone who doesn’t have a natural affinity for the test. 

Edited by Psychometronic
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4 hours ago, Psychometronic said:

I may be misinterpreting this, but simply going through one set of instructional materials after another won’t necessarily result in knowing the material better. It’s better to chose one set of materials that best suits your learning style and go through that at a pace that allows you to understand and master the concept. Quantity and speed, as someone said earlier, is not always a good strategy. A 165 is a mastery score, that is, it means you can handle at least some of the toughest versions of questions.

I’ll cast another vote for 7Sage. I purchased their ultimate package and based my entire prep on it (with The LSAT Trainer as a supplemental). I was not disappointed. If you are deciding on what to use given the little time you have, 7Sage is solid. 

Honestly, I don’t think a 30+ score jump is likely for someone who doesn’t have a natural affinity for the test. 

Correct assumption. I want to go with good study materials to build a correct and stable foundation. After reading reviews on study materials and getting my feet wet with the LSAT trainer. I'll be doing LSAT trainer and 7Sage.

How did you use the trainer as supplemental to 7Sage? Which sections and how did you study?

I am currently reading it and love the way Mike Kim's breaking stuff down. But not sure how to supplement with 7Sage.

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Why the rush? I would imagine that learning this test takes time, even for those who have a natural affinity for it. Alot of these concepts are not intuitive for the average person, even the average highly intelligent person. There's also the issue of motivation. Its one thing to make an elaborate plan to study by loading up on materials, but I find that when it comes down to it, this test requires a really tedious, almost mechanical kind of studying. Its hard to maintain that kind of focus for something that boring. 

Theres also the psychological burden of not seeing returns despite putting in the work. Loss of confidence and self-esteem have to be accounted for in maintaining motivation. Time pressure only makes this more of a potential reality.

Give yourself time, go slow. Really take the time to learn the test and know that getting the score you want takes a hell of a lot of work that may require you to change your strategy and take a few steps back before you get to where you need to be.

This may not apply to you at all. If not, wonderful. Kill it! But it may, and im saying if it does, you won't be the first and wont be the last to face the indedatigable LSAT beast.  But remember that above all this test is learnable, but it takes time and it also takes a certain kind of studying (make use of Blind Review when using practice tests always - go with 7Sage) to learn the subleties of the test.

Good luck!

Edited by capitalttruth
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1 hour ago, MustHit165 said:

Correct assumption. I want to go with good study materials to build a correct and stable foundation. After reading reviews on study materials and getting my feet wet with the LSAT trainer. I'll be doing LSAT trainer and 7Sage.

How did you use the trainer as supplemental to 7Sage? Which sections and how did you study?

I am currently reading it and love the way Mike Kim's breaking stuff down. But not sure how to supplement with 7Sage.

Mostly to see if there were other strategies for all 3 sections. I ended up using a mix of both strategies on logic games because I felt that the Trainer's approach to certain things worked better for me.

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So I'm sure a lot of people on this site might disagree with my advice (everyone wrote the test and, many people have many different opinions), but here it is for what its worth:

If you're not applying to McGill/UAlberta then you can take the test. But those two schools average your score, so if you mess up, you can't apply to them. I think you should give yourself more time.

When I wrote PTs after studying, I never got a 138. In fact, the worst score I got ever was a 163. I still ended up canceling my score the first time because on average, people perform worse than normal the day of the test. I knew I did. The second time, I got a 164 which was lower than any practice test I had done in that study cycle.

All that being said, I was scoring mid-170s on my PTs and still got my lowest score day of, after essentially studying for the test twice. If you're scoring 138, at all, I would not suggest writing the test in 6 weeks. I think you need more time to work on reading pace, timing pace and your skill. 2 weeks before, you should be able to predict the questions and answers in the sections quite easily and effortlessly because you've done so many, that was the case for me and other people who took the test. 

Also, don't practice online. 6 weeks prior, you should be printing scantrons and using an online proctor, maybe even going to the university you intend to write at. Make things as real as they can possibly be. I know this sounds neurotic, but an LSAT tutor of 15-20 years gave me this advice and I found it really helpful. I was so much less anxious when I did this and wrote the second time around. If you are interested in reaching out to my tutor, PM me and I'll send you his name. But, he will not train you with only 6 weeks to the test. He believes 3 months is an adequate amount of time, and honestly, so do I. 

Something else that tells me it is a bad idea for you to write it in 6 weeks is your score on the logic games section. It is the most objective and requires for the most part simple strategy and knowing the game types. It is probably the easiest section to score highly on. It seems you really don't have enough practice with these diagrams or questions. 6 weeks before, that is worrisome.

Lastly, I'm not a genius. I've always been good at language arts but I can't say to what degree that tangibly helped me. You can get a good score if you find the right resources and figure out your problems and correct them. That was much easier with the guidance of a tutor, but you seem adept at this. 

Edited by Megbean123
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