Jump to content
hellokitty123

A Tale of Two Cities' (Recruits)

Recommended Posts

Hey all, 

I'm doing recruits in two major Canadian cities. The schedule goes like this: 

  1. OCI City A 
  2. OCI City B 
  3. In firm City A - offers made at end of week 
  4. In firm City B

I'm from City A and I go to school in City B and would rather stay in City B. Currently, I have 4 in-firms in City B and OCIs for City A haven't happened yet but will happen before the in-firms. I thought I'd accept a City A offer if I got one but now I don't think I would (obviously, I can't know until it happens but this is my gut feeling right now) - I've accepted my interviews and booked a flight so I'm doing them anyway. 3/4 firms in City A are national firms that I am also OCI-ing with in City B. I expect to get asked about why I'm applying to both but I have an answer prepared. 

I'm worried that if I turn down an offer from national firm in City A (if I should be so lucky to receive one), they will tell their sister office in City B and blow my shot at in in-firm there. I will not be saying first-choice during City A in-firm and I will be as honest as I can without saying "yeah. tbh I'd prefer City B" so I don't mislead anyone.

This is complicated, but if anybody has experience with this I would very much appreciate it. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I wish you had just named the cities.. my brain is too lazy to keep track of which city is which.

But firms do communicate internally. I have a friend who interviewed in Calgary and Toronto at the same firm and the recruiters talked about it. During in-firms he was asked why he interviewed in Calgary since he expressed that he really wanted to work in Toronto. (it was fine in the end. He got hired in his city of choice)

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

if you are not going to accept an offer from city A, I don't think you should waste your and their time by going. Instead, you should let them know ASAP that you have changed your mind, that way you are not taking up spots just for practice and I am sure they would equally appreciate you letting them know. Seriously, let the folks who want a position in that city have a chance at it.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, healthlaw said:

But firms do communicate internally. I have a friend who interviewed in Calgary and Toronto at the same firm and the recruiters talked about it. During in-firms he was asked why he interviewed in Calgary since he expressed that he really wanted to work in Toronto. (it was fine in the end. He got hired in his city of choice)

Some firms, like Bennet Jones, use the same student recruitment coordinators for both / all offices. 

But I agree with Oddduck. If you aren't planning on accepting any offers in City (*insert letter* – I got lost too), you shouldn't interview there. Cancel your flight and use the credit for something else. 

Edited by BlockedQuebecois
  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
32 minutes ago, Oddduck said:

if you are not going to accept an offer from city A, I don't think you should waste your and their time by going. Instead, you should let them know ASAP that you have changed your mind, that way you are not taking up spots just for practice and I am sure they would equally appreciate you letting them know. Seriously, let the folks who want a position in that city have a chance at it.

 

14 minutes ago, BlockedQuebecois said:

Some firms, like Bennet Jones, use the same student recruitment coordinators for both / all offices. 

But I agree with Oddduck. If you aren't planning on accepting any offers in City (*insert letter* – I got lost too), you shouldn't interview there. Cancel your flight and use the credit for something else. 

Thanks for your responses. Sorry for the confusion but I'd rather not name the cities.

As of right now, it's not a sure thing but rather a gut feeling that I wouldn't accept an offer - I'm thinking ahead and planning for what could happen. I'm leaning towards one but not discounting the other and I don't think there's any reason not to do it unless I'd get blacklisted or something. 

But you're right, I read my post again and it does read like I wouldn't accept an offer at all - which is not true. I feel like I won't right now, and that could very well change after in-firms. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
15 minutes ago, hellokitty123 said:

 

Thanks for your responses. Sorry for the confusion but I'd rather not name the cities.

As of right now, it's not a sure thing but rather a gut feeling that I wouldn't accept an offer - I'm thinking ahead and planning for what could happen. I'm leaning towards one but not discounting the other and I don't think there's any reason not to do it unless I'd get blacklisted or something. 

But you're right, I read my post again and it does read like I wouldn't accept an offer at all - which is not true. I feel like I won't right now, and that could very well change after in-firms. 

I wouldn't go through the in-firm process with a national firm you hope to receive an offer from unless you intend on accepting an offer from them if you receive one. I can't imagine a firm that offered you employment in the first city would be very open to extending an offer to you in the second city after you have rejected their initial offer, unless you were a truly outstanding candidate (and even then, there are a lot of outstanding candidates). 

Firms expend a lot of resources on recruiting students, particularly during the 2L process. Most notably, you're taking away thousands of dollars of billable time from their lawyers. No firm is going to be happy to have spent those resources on you, extended you an offer, and then have you say, essentially "I knowingly wasted your time for this week, please offer me employment in this other city."

Of course, I'm neither a lawyer nor a student recruiter, so I can't be sure. I just know that it wouldn't be my strategy. 

Edited by BlockedQuebecois
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And that's not even thinking about the fact that you're taking away an in firm spot from another student - possibly one that would only have that one chance. The morals of it are shaky at best.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Most cities set their recruit up to discourage students from doing more than one ie. Vancouver sets up theirs to force students to make a choice between Van and TO. 

With in-firms, if they like you, there may be a second interview, or dinner or wine and cheese. If they are unsure, maybe even a breakfast on call day. If you are travelling back and forth, will this limit you from fully participating in either city?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, providence said:

Most cities set their recruit up to discourage students from doing more than one ie. Vancouver sets up theirs to force students to make a choice between Van and TO. 

With in-firms, if they like you, there may be a second interview, or dinner or wine and cheese. If they are unsure, maybe even a breakfast on call day. If you are travelling back and forth, will this limit you from fully participating in either city?

Summer in firm weeks are on separate weeks. 

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, hellokitty123 said:

 

Thanks for your responses. Sorry for the confusion but I'd rather not name the cities.

As of right now, it's not a sure thing but rather a gut feeling that I wouldn't accept an offer - I'm thinking ahead and planning for what could happen. I'm leaning towards one but not discounting the other and I don't think there's any reason not to do it unless I'd get blacklisted or something. 

But you're right, I read my post again and it does read like I wouldn't accept an offer at all - which is not true. I feel like I won't right now, and that could very well change after in-firms. 

I would honestly think about where you really want to stay. It sounds like you are good with interviews and your OCI prospect with your school city is very good to the point where you are re-considering your options.

Even if it is last minute now for you to cancel your in firms, it still saves you a lot of time, some money, and from ruining your chances at your school city with the same firm. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Oddduck said:

.... Seriously, let the folks who want a position in that city have a chance at it.

 

2 hours ago, pzabbythesecond said:

And that's not even thinking about the fact that you're taking away an in firm spot from another student - possibly one that would only have that one chance. The morals of it are shaky at best.

I really think the consideration about taking interview spots from others should not hang in the balance. It seems unfair to suggest so to the OP, if s/he still has even a small expectation of wanting to test the market in both City A and City B. It is even less welcome from anyone who comments specifically while currently in the same process. [I recall a similar tenor of comments in the Law School Applicants forum, by others waitlisted.]

After all, I don't think anyone would suggest the OP should have bombed an exam just to give others a better chance, because his grades were quite good already...--and that other student might only have that one (hypothetical) chance.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I actually do think it's rude and inconsiderate, to both your classmates and the firms, to take up interview time and space that you have no intention of using. I turned down 1L interviews because, after doing further research, I knew I had no interest in working with the firm. It was just a waste of everyone's time for me to interview there, and it would have hurt at least some of my peers needlessly. 

I think OP needs to figure out whether or not they want to work in that city. If they do, they should take the interviews. If they don't, they shouldn't. If it's incredibly borderline, an abundance of caution would suggest they should turn down the three with national firms they want to work in the other city for. 

Edited by BlockedQuebecois
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, BlockedQuebecois said:

I actually do think it's rude and inconsiderate, to both your classmates and the firms, to take up interview time and space that you have no intention of using. I turned down 1L interviews because, after doing further research, I knew I had no interest in working with the firm. 

I think OP needs to figure out whether or not they want to work in that city. If they do, they should take the interviews. If they don't, they shouldn't. If it's incredibly borderline, an abundance of caution would suggest they should turn down the three with national firms they want to work in the other city for. 

OP's post reads like an LSAT question and I'm still slightly confused (lol) but if I understand what they are trying to do correctly, I disagree. 

I think it's perfectly acceptable to go through the process in her preferred city and keep the firms in the other city on the back burner (I'm assuming OP will know if she has offers from her preferred city before in-firms happen in the other city).

OP may prefer to work in one city but may not get an offer. It happens all the time. So while she may not prefer to work in city B, I'm sure she prefers employment in City B over no job. From OP's post I didnt get the impression that she had "no interest" in accepting an offer from them.. it just seems like the other city isnt ideal

Edited by healthlaw
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, healthlaw said:

OP's post reads like an LSAT question and I'm still slightly confused (lol) but if I understand what they are trying to do correctly, I disagree. 

I think it's perfectly acceptable to go through the process in her preferred city and keep the firms in the other city on the back burner (I'm assuming OP will know if she has offers from her preferred city before in-firms happen in the other city).

OP may prefer to work in one city but may not get an offer. It happens all the time. So while she may not prefer to work in city B, I'm sure she prefers employment in City B over no job. From OP's post I didnt get the impression that she had "no interest" in accepting an offer from them.. it just seems like the other city isnt ideal

I would agree, but there's no real backburner option here, because the preferred city hires second. I would also agree if there wasn't substantial overlap between the firms in both cities. But because the preferred city hires second and 3/4 of the firms are shared, I think the better strategy is to figure out where OP wants to work and focus their energy there. Since their post stated they don't think they'd accept a second city offer, my advice would be to drop those interviews to maintain maximal options in the preferred city. 

Edited by BlockedQuebecois
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

2 hours ago, providence said:

Most cities set their recruit up to discourage students from doing more than one ie. Vancouver sets up theirs to force students to make a choice between Van and TO. 

With in-firms, if they like you, there may be a second interview, or dinner or wine and cheese. If they are unsure, maybe even a breakfast on call day. If you are travelling back and forth, will this limit you from fully participating in either city?

Thanks for the response - travelling back and forth won't be an issue in my participation.

 

1 hour ago, Oddduck said:

I would honestly think about where you really want to stay. It sounds like you are good with interviews and your OCI prospect with your school city is very good to the point where you are re-considering your options.

Even if it is last minute now for you to cancel your in firms, it still saves you a lot of time, some money, and from ruining your chances at your school city with the same firm. 

Unfortunately, I don't have refundable tickets - so it would save me no money. My prospects are good, I'm interviewing with some great firms. Ones I didn't think I would get - hence the reconsideration. Thanks for your response. 

 

42 minutes ago, cluj said:

 

I really think the consideration about taking interview spots from others should not hang in the balance. It seems unfair to suggest so to the OP, if s/he still has even a small expectation of wanting to test the market in both City A and City B. It is even less welcome from anyone who comments specifically while currently in the same process. [I recall a similar tenor of comments in the Law School Applicants forum, by others waitlisted.]

After all, I don't think anyone would suggest the OP should have bombed an exam just to give others a better chance, because his grades were quite good already...--and that other student might only have that one (hypothetical) chance.

Thanks for this cluj, but I get it - it's a stressful time. 

 

9 minutes ago, healthlaw said:

OP's post reads like an LSAT question and I'm still slightly confused (lol) but if I understand what they are trying to do correctly, I disagree. 

I think it's perfectly acceptable to go through the process in her preferred city and keep the firms in the other city on the back burner (I'm assuming OP will know if she has offers from her preferred city before in-firms happen in the other city).

OP may prefer to work in one city but may not get an offer. It happens all the time. So while she may not prefer to work in city B, I'm sure she prefers employment in City B over no job. From OP's post I didnt get the impression that she had "no interest" in accepting an offer from them.. it just seems like the other city isnt ideal

Haha yes it is very much like a LSAT (sorry!). I realized I made a mistake which must have added to the confusion. I have no idea how to edit my post so... the mistake and my shame lives on.  

 

2 minutes ago, BlockedQuebecois said:

I would agree, but there's no real backburner option here, because the preferred city hires second. I would also agree if there wasn't substantial overlap between the firms in both cities. But because the preferred city hires second and 3/4 of the firms are shared, I think the better strategy is to figure out where OP wants to work and focus their energy there. Since they're post stated they don't think they'd accept a second city offer, my advice would be to drop those interviews to maintain maximal options in the preferred city. 

You're right - it's a risk either way. I appreciate your advice. 

 

Thanks for the input everyone. I didn't realize this would be as sore of a topic as it was, so I apologize for that. I have a lot to think about.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would say two things, actually, three. 

You wrote so confusingly that I don't quite understand what you meant exactly but generally, I disagree you owe anything to classmates, they had the same shot at applying you did, too bad so sad for them. Second, you're thinking about it wrong, it's not about what YOU prefer, it's about setting yourself up to come as close to guaranteeing an offer as possible. Throw too many balls up in the air, and you won't catch any.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah, I don’t think you should worry about whether you’re taking an opportunity from anyone else. That’s not your concern. I do think you should worry about hurting yourself. It is not the norm to apply in two cities. Most people make a choice and usually it’s the city they go to school in or their hometown, if the two are different, or some other city if there’s another rationale (partner’s hometown, etc.) By looking indecisive you may screw yourself out of any opportunity.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
47 minutes ago, Chambertin said:

I would say two things, actually, three. 

You wrote so confusingly that I don't quite understand what you meant exactly but generally, I disagree you owe anything to classmates, they had the same shot at applying you did, too bad so sad for them. Second, you're thinking about it wrong, it's not about what YOU prefer, it's about setting yourself up to come as close to guaranteeing an offer as possible. Throw too many balls up in the air, and you won't catch any.

 

7 minutes ago, providence said:

Yeah, I don’t think you should worry about whether you’re taking an opportunity from anyone else. That’s not your concern. I do think you should worry about hurting yourself. It is not the norm to apply in two cities. Most people make a choice and usually it’s the city they go to school in or their hometown, if the two are different, or some other city if there’s another rationale (partner’s hometown, etc.) By looking indecisive you may screw yourself out of any opportunity.

Thanks for both of your input. The concern you both raised, blowing my chances at both offices, is my exact concern. But I have other options other than the overlapping firms, so there's that. 

I talked to my CDO and they seem to think this whole situation is fine and I should come out the other side clean and without a tarnished reputation so long as I am clear and open with the firms (which I have been this whole time). They did say firms may ask me to rank their offices. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, hellokitty123 said:

 

Thanks for both of your input. The concern you both raised, blowing my chances at both offices, is my exact concern. But I have other options other than the overlapping firms, so there's that. 

I talked to my CDO and they seem to think this whole situation is fine and I should come out the other side clean and without a tarnished reputation so long as I am clear and open with the firms (which I have been this whole time). They did say firms may ask me to rank their offices. 

I don’t mean to be rude but in my experience, it is rare that a law school CDO actually gives good advice about these types of thing. 

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.



  • Recent Posts

    • Hello, I'm in my 4th year at UofL in Calgary and currently have the following stats: CGPA: 3.21 L2: 3.53 B3: 3.32 I'm practicing the LSAT test and lowest I've had is 163. Highest I've had is 167. Work Experience: I've been working in Business Development full-time now for about 3+ years. Before that worked at a bank full-time and before that retail jobs. Always worked 30+ hours a week to support family. Reason for low CGPA is one BAD year dealing with a lot of personal problems. I know I won't get into Osgoode and UofT. But my goal is Queens. My list includes Dal, UofC, USask, Western, Ottawa and UBC. What are my chances in these schools? What about the other schools? I'm open to go to any school that takes me but would LOVE to go to Queens. and If not, then one from my list.
    • Definitely hard to say but I think I've done some considerable volunteering and leadership stuff that I really hope helps my case, but again it's really hard to know what other people applying to a holistic school look like.    I did a lil calculation and my CGPA is only like 2.9, I have some serious regrets about how I used my time in my first few years of university but not much can be done now. I am taking 4 more classes currently to bump myself but as I'm sure you know, its insanely hard to see a lot of movement. I took 4 spring/summer classes and got 4 As, it only moved my L2 GPA by 0.015. Sigh. I'm also signed up for 4 more in Winter but those aren't considered. So if all goes as planned i'll be more in the 3.6L2/3.0 CGPA range going into the 2020 cycle but obviously that doesn't help me for 2019. 

      Anyways, just trying to be as strategic as possible. Again, my expectations are not high and I'm not banking on getting in for 2019- obviously it would be a nice surprise though if I managed to claw my way in somewhere 


       
    • Sorry guys, this is probably a really stupid question but I've been working on applications all day and my brain is sufficiently fried. I'm not seeing a supporting documents deadline on the OLSAS website or the Windsor Law site. Does this mean my actual references have to be complete by November 1st, or is there an actual document deadline I'm just not seeing? Also, does anyone know what the outline for these reference letters look like? I'm trying to advise my referees on what is required but I'm having a hell of time finding out more details. 

      Thanks
    • I called OLSAS today with the same question. The asked me to get the college to send OLSAS a letter saying that they can not provide transcripts. And they said the deadline for "these sort of documents" is later than November 1st. so I shouldn't worry if it doesn't get there by November 1st.
    • Yeah, it forces you to make choices.  ie. who do you choose between: -your dream firm where you sense you did not wow them but they are lukewarm on it (can you turn things around and wow them at the dinner?) -a firm you sense was wowed by you but you are lukewarm on it (if you have a good experience at the dinner will you like it more?) -the most "prestigious" firm you interviewed for as you see it -the firm you threw in on a whim that you weren't expecting to like but find intriguing
×