Article - living on a lawyer's salary in Vancouver

[rebeccius 113]

7 minutes ago, epeeist said:

"Here, for someone who works at a business/corporate/tax firm, whose bio says she advises clients on their investments, some of the quotes in that article don't seem particularly good PR, especially the not understanding investment one.

I was thinking the exact same thing.  Brutal!    However, I actually would question her judgement not because she's fortunate enough to live rent-free in an amazing city, etc., but because she allowed this piece to be published.  

[Abii 92]

On 7/23/2018 at 9:33 AM, TrialPrep said:

Very few people under 40 own property in Vancouver without family money. In that sense, it is representative. 

As Trump likes to say: WRONG! 

But seriously, I think a fact check is in order about most buying with the help of parents. I bought my condo at the end of 2015 (well into the condo boom) at age 27. My brother is in his early 20's, debt free and saving up for a condo (he'll be buying it with his gf). Neither of us got a penny from our parents. In fact, I'm going to be giving my mom 5000 dollars in a few days to help out with debt. 

Just think about it though. In order to buy before the age of 40 you need a down-payment and a mortgage. The down-payment is usually the hardest part, but by the time you collect that cash you'll have so much work experience that the mortgage obviously won't be an issue. If you have an 80k+ job for 3+ years, you can save up at least 50-70k. At least. 

Yes, most young people in Vancouver aren't buying, but the ones that do aren't necessarily getting handouts from parents. Also, when you say Vancouver, I'm assuming you're talking about Greater Vancouver. Right now you can find condos for 400-550 in Coquitlam. Almost brand new. Even in Burnaby you can find stuff for 500. If you start working at the age of 20, by the time you're 30 you'll have the down-payment. If you get into a trade out of high school (which is big here in the lower mainland) you're laughing. All the ticketed welders, scaffolders, NDT techs, plumbers, crane operators etc... are making close to 6 digits. And think about how many of them are in their 20's and 30's. If they use their brains they can easily get into the market, and a lot of them do.  

[ericontario 1203]

5 hours ago, Abii said:

As Trump likes to say: WRONG! 

But seriously, I think a fact check is in order about most buying with the help of parents. I bought my condo at the end of 2015 (well into the condo boom) at age 27. My brother is in his early 20's, debt free and saving up for a condo (he'll be buying it with his gf). Neither of us got a penny from our parents. In fact, I'm going to be giving my mom 5000 dollars in a few days to help out with debt. 

Just think about it though. In order to buy before the age of 40 you need a down-payment and a mortgage. The down-payment is usually the hardest part, but by the time you collect that cash you'll have so much work experience that the mortgage obviously won't be an issue. If you have an 80k+ job for 3+ years, you can save up at least 50-70k. At least. 

Yes, most young people in Vancouver aren't buying, but the ones that do aren't necessarily getting handouts from parents. Also, when you say Vancouver, I'm assuming you're talking about Greater Vancouver. Right now you can find condos for 400-550 in Coquitlam. Almost brand new. Even in Burnaby you can find stuff for 500. If you start working at the age of 20, by the time you're 30 you'll have the down-payment. If you get into a trade out of high school (which is big here in the lower mainland) you're laughing. All the ticketed welders, scaffolders, NDT techs, plumbers, crane operators etc... are making close to 6 digits. And think about how many of them are in their 20's and 30's. If they use their brains they can easily get into the market, and a lot of them do.  

Nobody said that everyone who's under 40 and buying in Vancouver is getting handouts from their parents - it's that very few people are able to do so without help from their parents. You doing it without your parents makes for a wonderful anecdote, but it's not proof in itself that there are tons of other people in this age bracket doing the same. You even said yourself that most people under 40 aren't buying.

[Jaggers 10612]

Remember the quaint old days like 10 years ago where they told you not to get a mortgage bigger than 3-4X your gross annual income?

[pzabbythesecond 4462]

1 hour ago, Jaggers said:

Remember the quaint old days like 10 years ago where they told you not to get a mortgage bigger than 3-4X your gross annual income?

My first thought when Abii mentioned a 50 thousand down payment and buying property in Vancouver....

[AnonLaw 59]

You guys might all want to keep in mind that a four year call is definitely not guaranteed an income that high. Many lawyers I know at that level make much less than that, or they are on a commission basis, or self employed. If you want something like my budget in Vancouver, I'm not posting my income, but I save money mostly through still living like I did in law school.

Rent: $1600 for a one bedroom + den outside of downtown. (now considered 'cheap' because rents have gone up a lot recently)

Utilities: $100-$200 per month plus (phone, internet, electricity)

Food: A bit more than Toronto but not that much more. Restaurant meals are about the same.

Car: $350 on a lease for a Honda. Gas is about $50 per month now because I moved close enough to work to walk to work.

Bar fees: $3000/year

Fun: $200 or so a month. I have cheap hobbies.

Holidays: I'll tell you when I go on one.

Oh also it looks like she doesn't have that job anymore. She's off her firm's website and the LSBC has her address as some random residential address. So she either got sick of law (completely fair and understandable) or she's in between jobs and perhaps not going to be able to have $6K a month after taxes available anymore. Some luxuries, like the monthly wine tours, may need to be sacrificed.

Edited July 27, 2018 by AnonLaw

[Psychometronic 400]

1 hour ago, AnonLaw said:

 Some luxuries, like the monthly wine tours, may need to be sacrificed.

To be fair, this was likely her budget for a particular month. Maybe she happened to be on vacation that month and purchased some bottles to take home. It seems unlikely she's getting a $75 haircut every month either. 

Edited July 27, 2018 by Psychometronic

[Abii 92]

6 hours ago, ericontario said:

Nobody said that everyone who's under 40 and buying in Vancouver is getting handouts from their parents - it's that very few people are able to do so without help from their parents. You doing it without your parents makes for a wonderful anecdote, but it's not proof in itself that there are tons of other people in this age bracket doing the same. You even said yourself that most people under 40 aren't buying.

It is absolute proof. Even on face value TrialTrep's claim doesn't make much sense. Most people our age aren't buying b/c most people our age care more about travel, having "experiences" rather than assets and they're generally risk averse. Plus, when you buy you have to deal with maintenance, you're locked down etc... 

From the ones that do, I have no absolute proof that "very few are able to do so without help from their parents." Neither do you. But on face value, to me, that claim seems ridiculous and my own experience is absolute proof that there are "tons" of others doing the same. Why? Because there are enough 20-something and 30-something year olds making six-figures that the help of parents isn't necessary. My brother is an EIT (engineer in training) and he's making close to 80. When he gets his P.Eng in 2-3 years he'll be over 110k. His girlfriend is making the same at another company. They both graduated in 2017. 

If you have a trade ticket you're making 40+ dollars an hour. Say you're working NO OVERTIME (highly unlikely in the trades) and you get 10% vac pay... that's ~85k a year. If you do nights you usually get 15% more. If you do OT you get 1.5-2 times per hour. So you can easily go over six-figures. Think of how many young tradesmen are out there. Towers in Vancouver are being pushed back 2 years because they can't find enough trades to fill in positions. Drive around Lonsdale Quay and look at all the Alberta plates. They're all here to work in the shipyards and the construction sites in the vicinity. I know 2 guys that were flown in from Fort MacMurray, given a truck each and rent allowance to work in the shipyards as NDT technicians. 

If the news didn't focus on so much negative bs, the attitude wouldn't always be so doom and gloom.

Edited July 27, 2018 by Abii

[hitman9172 353]

The median household income in Vancouver is roughly $75,000. I'm born and raised in Vancouver and the majority of people I know well in their 20's or early 30's make between $50-$65k, which is significantly above the median. Of the few who do own a property, I estimate about 90% of them received money from their parents for the down payment.

I am far more likely to believe TrialPrep's claim that there are very few young people who can afford to buy a property in Vancouver without assistance from their family. Abii, I am sure you know quite a few engineers and tradesmen making $80k to low six figures, but that is far from the norm. Those people are making more than double what the median income is for an individual in Vancouver and I would bet that they are a small percentage of their demographic in Vancouver. 

 

 

 

Edited July 28, 2018 by hitman9172

[benjuryon 400]

On 7/27/2018 at 1:01 PM, AnonLaw said:

Oh also it looks like she doesn't have that job anymore. She's off her firm's website and the LSBC has her address as some random residential address. So she either got sick of law (completely fair and understandable) or she's in between jobs and perhaps not going to be able to have $6K a month after taxes available anymore. Some luxuries, like the monthly wine tours, may need to be sacrificed.

She was on there at least as of last week. Hopefully the renewed attention on ls.ca didn't scuttle her position