Jump to content
pdaddy

Multiple employment offers

Recommended Posts

Just to chime in again, 

Any chance you know what the salary progression is at the 70k firm? Do you convert to eat what you kill at some point, etc? I'm not really sure how PI works. 

And nobody here is ripping on 70k. You have multiple offers and the minimum if you play your cards right is 70k. Life is good. 70k in GTA is pretty solid (especially if you commute!)

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

Relax, go with whichever firm you liked better. When you say things like your experience was ahead of the pack you can expect some ribbing because you’re taking yourself too seriously. You just articled. 

Edited by TrialPrep
  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, TrialPrep said:

Relax, go with whichever firm you liked better. When you say things like your experience was ahead of the pack you can expect some ribbing because you’re taking yourself too seriously. You just articled. 

/thread. 

 

What do you folks wanna argue about next? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, setto said:

/thread. 

 

What do you folks wanna argue about next? 

Donald Trump? :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I was really excited about my set date experience. It really helped me get confidence in court, learn to deal with fuckery that comes up a lot, and tell crown to go stuff it when they tried to pull a fast one on us (obviously not in that language).

 

...I was in 1L. 

 

But I'll say this much: OP you sure write a persuasive cover letter for anyone who doesn't know how set date court operates (and it seems to have worked!)

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Set-date court does open your eyes to the Chernobyl-level disaster that is our court administration system. You do gain a lot of advocacy experience arguing with court staff about mundane things like filing or not losing an Information, which most people would think would be standard form, but is often a fantastic adventure.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

OP, For context I have been practising criminal law for over a decade, and I agree with providence's take on this.

You got great experience as a student articling in criminal defence, doing exactly what most students who article in criminal defence do. It sets you in the path to being a competent litigator. 

I will simply add my voice to the chorus of “be careful not to oversell it”. Compared to some other articled students your experience may be superior, sure: but it’s not exceptional. When I read your posts here, having never met you, my reaction was the same as providence’s, herself an experienced defence lawyer. 

But congratulations on having an offer already. Fwiw I think you want to be wary of leveraging offers against each other. The market is flooded with new Calls looking for work. I recently hired some one, and in the course of interviewing applicants for the position at least one person tried touting their numerous offers. Since this made it clear to me that they weren’t really interested in the job but just in the pay check, I cut them loose.

Whatever you decide, I hope the next experience is as valuable as the first!

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, QuincyWagstaff said:

I don't think setting dates is significant experience, even if the Crown is unreasonable. Running bail hearings, doing sentencings, etc., that's substantive criminal experience. 

After you've run around setting dates for a week or two, I think you know the deal. 

 

While bail hearings and sentencings are obviously more substantial than setting dates, even experience setting dates is significant - because it brings you into court.  I gets you comfortable on your feet in a courtroom.  It teaches you to be fast on your feet.  It gets you known to the Crown and the local judges.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'd be very careful about selecting your first post-articling job solely on the basis of money.

Your first few years of practicing are most useful for helping to set you up for the rest of your career.  You want the job that is going to give you the experience doing the kind of work you want to keep on doing.  There's no point in taking a job in an area you hate because they're going to pay you an extra $5 or $10k per year.

As well - beware that with a bigger salary comes bigger expectations.  The more you are paid, the more you are expected to contribute right away.  Again, you want a job that sets you up for long-term success.

  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
27 minutes ago, Malicious Prosecutor said:

 

While bail hearings and sentencings are obviously more substantial than setting dates, even experience setting dates is significant - because it brings you into court.  I gets you comfortable on your feet in a courtroom.  It teaches you to be fast on your feet.  It gets you known to the Crown and the local judges.

Ok, it's not totally insignificant. 

However, if you've spent most of your articles running around setting dates 4 or 5 days a week, for 8 hours a day, I think you've got a raw deal. I've seen students doing this. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 minutes ago, QuincyWagstaff said:

Ok, it's not totally insignificant. 

However, if you've spent most of your articles running around setting dates 4 or 5 days a week, for 8 hours a day, I think you've got a raw deal. I've seen students doing this. 

And if 90% of them turn in arguments requiring thinking on your feet and sending in the guy who is nice to the crowns, something is wrong. Going in there should be mostly routine if a firm is on top of their shit. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
44 minutes ago, providence said:

And if 90% of them turn in arguments requiring thinking on your feet and sending in the guy who is nice to the crowns, something is wrong. Going in there should be mostly routine if a firm is on top of their shit. 

Speaking as a Crown who does his share of docket court appearances, some principals are much better than others about giving their students full and complete instructions on their files...

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@pdaddy What did you decide with regards to informing any of the prospective firms that you had received an offer? How did you go about informing the offering firm that you needed some time to make a decision?

I'm I a similar boat and want to take time to consider my options, but am not sure how to approach firms I've interviewed at to ask whether they can make their hiring decisions faster?! One of them wants at least a month because they are still interviewing!

Also, in reply to @Malicious Prosecutor's comments regarding principal's instructions, I can vouch for the fact that even within firms lawyers will vary greatly in the instructions they give to their students.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, yello said:

I'm I a similar boat and want to take time to consider my options, but am not sure how to approach firms I've interviewed at to ask whether they can make their hiring decisions faster?! One of them wants at least a month because they are still interviewing!

Do you have an offer in hand? If so, I would send a polite email to the recruiter/hiring partner along the lines of “I’ve received an offer from another firm, but I would be very interested in working with your firm. Do you know when you anticipate making a hiring decision?” 

Theyll likely either tell you you’re out, tell you you're hired, or tell you when they’ll decide. If it’s the third one, then you’ll have to decide for yourself whether you’re comfortable letting the offer sit that long. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Mountebank said:

...what is set date court?

I think it’s a dating service for overcaffeinated articling students / junior associates. V exclusive — the app only lets you log-on after you’ve collapsed on your memo and forgotten your monthly exercise day. 

Edited by realpseudonym
  • Like 1
  • Haha 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Mountebank said:

...what is set date court?

When a person is charged with an offence, they are given an appearance date in court, but that’s not the day they have a trial or get sentenced. There will be several brief administrative appearances before any of that happens, where the accused or their representative attend on a docket of numerous other people and their lawyer (or, often, lawyer’s articling student or junior associate) informs the court of the status of the matter, the goal being to resolve the matter/enter a plea and set dates for prelim/trial or sentencing. Now that the Supreme Court has ruled on delay, this is supposed to happen as quickly as possible, but you can’t set dates until you have been retained or have legal aid in place, have all relevant disclosure, have had meaningful discussions with the Crown and your client etc. So the Court is responsible for managing and moving this process along. It’s often students/juniors attending to report on their supervising lawyers’ clients, so they need up to date accurate information from us to convey to the court. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2018-07-18 at 5:34 PM, yello said:

@pdaddy What did you decide with regards to informing any of the prospective firms that you had received an offer? How did you go about informing the offering firm that you needed some time to make a decision?

I'm I a similar boat and want to take time to consider my options, but am not sure how to approach firms I've interviewed at to ask whether they can make their hiring decisions faster?! One of them wants at least a month because they are still interviewing!

Also, in reply to @Malicious Prosecutor's comments regarding principal's instructions, I can vouch for the fact that even within firms lawyers will vary greatly in the instructions they give to their students.

If they said they need a month, they need a month - how can you make them go faster? And if they said they need a month but didn’t give you any assurances that they are very interested in you, I wouldn’t hold my breath. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.



  • Recent Posts

    • No worries there. Most Oz students do their damned best to disassociate themselves with York whenever possible. They won't slip up. 
    • This is exactly my point on AI not being what the media says it is. The chances of lawyers getting replaced in our lifetime is pretty small.
    • I'm selling all of my Barbri materials that I used for the July 2018 exam. The materials are the same as those for the February 2019 exam (the covers of my books say July 2018/Feb 2019). I have all the materials included in the Barbri course, including the flashcards. I can also include some handouts that I printed (lecture notes, summaries, powerpoints for mini-lectures, study plan, and overviews). Everything is in good condition, as I barely highlighted or marked up any of the textbooks (except the lecture handouts, but they're useless unless they're filled out).  I'm willing to ship these wherever they need to go (we can negotiate on shipping), and I'm open to reasonable offers. PM me if you're interested
    • I won't claim I've read all the articles, but skimming the titles only puts them into the category of what I was saying before. It's buzz. And it's confusing the tool with the real work of a lawyer. If something automated actually killed thousands of parking tickets I guess that's real "law" in a way, but I can't believe it's more sophisticated than automating something simple that you can't pay a human being enough to care about doing for what it's worth. Again, there's a difference between automation and AI. I seriously don't think anyone has tried to grapple with my point about drafting. Do you realize how many people used to be employed simply to copy documents by hand? No one seriously imagines that word processing and photocopying killed a whole swath of the profession simply because students and junior lawyers don't sit all day copying contracts in longhand. The real work of this profession is creative and analytical. And that's before we even talk about the actual advocacy and human interaction. The day computers can do that, they can do damn near anything. EDIT: I've now read about the ticket-fighting "robot lawyer" and it's actually no more sophisticated than the SimpleTax program I used until recently. That is, it's a nice little choose-your-own adventure program, with the appropriate rules filled in, but to pretend it's AI is just absurd. It's no more AI than a DIY will kit.
×