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Destroythelsat

Switch tutor or over reacting

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Xer thanks for pointing that out, I didn't say anything when the first few comments rolled in, but I am noticing a pattern on this forum of people coming off as very condescending. Don't you think it makes people hesitant to ask for help, which is the main purpose of the forum ?

Giving people unsolicited life advice on circumstances you know nothing about seems to be a trend here. 

This is a forum, not a college admissions essay. 

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8 minutes ago, Destroythelsat said:

Xer thanks for pointing that out, I didn't say anything when the first few comments rolled in, but I am noticing a pattern on this forum of people coming off as very condescending. Don't you think it makes people hesitant to ask for help, which is the main purpose of the forum ?

Giving people unsolicited life advice on circumstances you know nothing about seems to be a trend here. 

This is a forum, not a college admissions essay. 

I tried being helpful before, I did think too many people went on about your first post, but I'm not in agreement with this one.

1. In this forum, if one wants help, make it as easy as possible for people to give help. Be clear and as concise as possible (people like me may indulge in arguably overlong responses, but your questions should be as brief and clear as possible). Long, rambling, incoherent questions mean that the best way for people to be helpful is to encourage the poster to improve their writing and how they ask questions so that more people will be willing to respond in a helpful way.

2. You want free advice, including from people who normally charge hundreds of dollars an hour? Okay, some of the advice you get may not be what you want to hear.

3. Sometimes - often - telling someone what they don't want to hear is trying to be helpful.

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Wanting free advice = take condescending, unasked for advice without calling people out on it? Didn't know that was a requirement when I signed up to this forum.

Look, I really do appreciate people devoting their time and effort to respond to people's questions here. I've gotten a lot of really helpful responses to my questions, some of which probably sound kind of silly to people who've already experienced law school admissions and beyond.

I guess I just wish people could be a bit less quick to jump to conclusions about other people based on a single post they make on an internet forum. Sure, people can be quick to judge others both online and in real life, including prospective clients and employers I'm sure, but who says we have act the same as those people?

Edit: Writing this I don't mean to target people who specifically posted in this thread. It's more of a general trend that I've seen popping up here from time to time, and I guess this thread was just the moment that finally got to me enough that I felt like I had to mention it. Also, I don't think anyone here doesn't mean well and isn't genuinely trying to help others, just that the tone of people's advice can sometimes be a bit of a problem.

Edited by Xer
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18 hours ago, Xer said:

I find that comment somewhat unfair. Although the OP's first comment was a little hard to understand, they mentioned writing it hastily. I didn't have any trouble understanding most of their other posts.

People online can be super quick to judge someone based on very small sample sizes. I'm not saying what you said doesn't have any merit (I don't know how the OP writes in a professional setting), but I see a lot of patronizing 'we know what's good for you' comments on this forum and it's starting to slightly irk me.

Meh. Ppl come here for advice on how to get into and do well in law school; if they don't like the advice they can choose not to accept it.

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58 minutes ago, conge said:

Meh. Ppl come here for advice on how to get into and do well in law school; if they don't like the advice they can choose not to accept it.

See my comment above for my thoughts re: this.

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4 hours ago, Xer said:

See my comment above for my thoughts re: this.

This is general, not about OP who even I think people went on too much about. :rolleyes:

One of the rules of this site is don't be a jerk. I'm not Morgan, I'm not a mod, but if someone posts a question that is unclear, lengthy, hard to understand, HAS SHOUTING, ridiculous formatting, demonstrates the person hasn't even Googled the subject themselves, etc., and expects law students and lawyers to take time to try to understand what they're saying, do research themselves, and answer the question asked, only that question, politely, with no snarkiness, and not giving any advice outside what was asked, isn't that a case of the questioner being a jerk both by how they asked the question and what their expectations are?

And if someone chooses to try to help the poster in such a case, even if their advice is something beyond what the person asked or includes advice to work on English or whatever, isn't that more helpful than simply ignoring them?

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33 minutes ago, epeeist said:

This is general, not about OP who even I think people went on too much about. :rolleyes:

One of the rules of this site is don't be a jerk. I'm not Morgan, I'm not a mod, but if someone posts a question that is unclear, lengthy, hard to understand, HAS SHOUTING, ridiculous formatting, demonstrates the person hasn't even Googled the subject themselves, etc., and expects law students and lawyers to take time to try to understand what they're saying, do research themselves, and answer the question asked, only that question, politely, with no snarkiness, and not giving any advice outside what was asked, isn't that a case of the questioner being a jerk both by how they asked the question and what their expectations are?

And if someone chooses to try to help the poster in such a case, even if their advice is something beyond what the person asked or includes advice to work on English or whatever, isn't that more helpful than simply ignoring them?

I agree that people can ask questions that are unclear, poorly worded, etc., which can be frustrating for well-meaning people to try and answer. Even worse is when people ask a question and then proceed to yell at everyone who tries to give them helpful advice (especially when it's answering the exact question they asked in the first place!). I don't like it when people do that either.

I'm actually okay with going beyond the parameters the original question was about (the original poster may not have considered such things and might appreciate the extra help). A little snark is fine too in most situations. Honestly, a kind of snarky response to one of my questions was a good wake-up call to how something I wrote could be misconstrued, so it can even be helpful at times

I personally disagree about advising people to work on their English, though. You don't know if English isn't their first language or they have difficulties with writing/reading skills due to dyslexia or what have you. Plus they might be perfectly articulate in English but just might be having an off day. Or they wrote it in a hurry, as with the OP here in this thread. Or they don't take as much care with their spelling and grammar here as they would on, say, the LSAT. Sure, making one's post legible and comprehensible for other people should be a priority if for no other reason than increasing the chances of someone answering your question, but idk if failing to do so requires a lecture from everyone else about how they'll fail as a lawyer and shouldn't even bother applying to law school if they can't bother to proofread a post they made on an internet forum.

Oops, that got a little long and rant-y. Just wanted to clarify that I really like this forum and the posters here! I guess this is just a nitpick I have that I went a bit overboard with. If only I could write this much on my essays...

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On 6/18/2018 at 12:02 PM, Destroythelsat said:

Hey- 

tutor -charges 120 - only books it out in 2 hours ( cad) not usd.  ( he's just tutoring for games if that gives you context ) 

Gave me prepwork a few days before our session in those days I got sick, but still did what he asked for me to do - upon telling him I did 6 games he told me i  SAID DO AT LEAST - after I brought his email up during our session. After we finished he said do at least 1 PT leading up to the exam I said ok so you were saying 1 and then I was going to finish my statement to discuss HOW many I would actually be doing he said I said at least 1 man you really need me to write least in 72 size font. 

During the session he kept pausing for long bits even though I clearly explained I didn't know what the answer was. 

Another thing - when we booked the session I said can we do it later I'm used to a later schedule ( due to some things ) then when he wanted me to book at 9am next week I said that's too early for me personally- hes like I'm not asking you to wake up at 5 am you really need to adjust your sleep ... told him I'm working on getting up earlier - keep in mind this lsat takes place at a later time. 

**Switch tutors ( give recommendations below) or am I over reacting , ( tbh the whole back handed comments are unprofesh to someone you are paying to teach you/gave me really uneasy feelings-not about the test about himself)** 

You can hire me, I won't say mean comments to you or tell you to wake up early. Problem solved.

 

 

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3 hours ago, Xer said:

I agree that people can ask questions that are unclear, poorly worded, etc., which can be frustrating for well-meaning people to try and answer. Even worse is when people ask a question and then proceed to yell at everyone who tries to give them helpful advice (especially when it's answering the exact question they asked in the first place!). I don't like it when people do that either.

I'm actually okay with going beyond the parameters the original question was about (the original poster may not have considered such things and might appreciate the extra help). A little snark is fine too in most situations. Honestly, a kind of snarky response to one of my questions was a good wake-up call to how something I wrote could be misconstrued, so it can even be helpful at times

I personally disagree about advising people to work on their English, though. You don't know if English isn't their first language or they have difficulties with writing/reading skills due to dyslexia or what have you. Plus they might be perfectly articulate in English but just might be having an off day. Or they wrote it in a hurry, as with the OP here in this thread. Or they don't take as much care with their spelling and grammar here as they would on, say, the LSAT. Sure, making one's post legible and comprehensible for other people should be a priority if for no other reason than increasing the chances of someone answering your question, but idk if failing to do so requires a lecture from everyone else about how they'll fail as a lawyer and shouldn't even bother applying to law school if they can't bother to proofread a post they made on an internet forum.

Oops, that got a little long and rant-y. Just wanted to clarify that I really like this forum and the posters here! I guess this is just a nitpick I have that I went a bit overboard with. If only I could write this much on my essays...

English isn't my first language, and I am not offended if people point out where my English could be better. Regardless of what a person's issues may be, it is important that lawyers communicate as clearly as possible. No one said OP would "fail as a lawyer." 

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On 6/18/2018 at 2:49 PM, Destroythelsat said:

It was written in haste , hence the writing style. 

Law school exams test your ability to write cogently under extreme time pressure. If you go to law school, you will need to learn to write clearly despite haste requirements. 

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11 minutes ago, providence said:

English isn't my first language, and I am not offended if people point out where my English could be better. Regardless of what a person's issues may be, it is important that lawyers communicate as clearly as possible. No one said OP would "fail as a lawyer." 

That's fine! I'm cool with people pointing out my mistakes as well. Just don't expect everyone to feel grateful when you do point out mistakes, I guess?

Edit: To be clear, English is my first language due to being born and raised in Canada. However, my parents' first language is not English and, while of course they want to improve their English and will take constructive criticism graciously, sometimes I've seen the constant corrections from people trying to be helpful getting to them.

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6 minutes ago, Xer said:

That's fine! I'm cool with people pointing out my mistakes as well. Just don't expect everyone to feel grateful when you do point out mistakes, I guess?

Edit: To be clear, English is my first language due to being born and raised in Canada. However, my parents' first language is not English and, while of course they want to improve their English and will take constructive criticism graciously, sometimes I've seen the constant corrections from people trying to be helpful getting to them.

I don’t think anyone expects people to be grateful. They get advice, they can take it or leave it. 

I probably correct my family members’ English more than anyone else. It’s annoyingly that they still barely know any English. Come on already. 

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7 minutes ago, providence said:

I don’t think anyone expects people to be grateful. They get advice, they can take it or leave it. 

I probably correct my family members’ English more than anyone else. It’s annoyingly that they still barely know any English. Come on already. 

I guess I don't find that attitude helpful? Idk where I'm going with this anymore. I'm probably the 'nice aunt' type that sucks at disciplining or teaching people important life lessons about the REAL WORLD, but I guess I just wanted to get my perspective out there. I'll stop hijacking this thread now ;;

Back the original point of this thread, I hope the OP either gets a different tutor that helps them more or improves things with their current tutor. I haven't taken the LSAT yet, but am willing to swap study tips and commiserate about Logic Games over PMs with anyone else who's studying for the LSAT!

Edited by Xer

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26 minutes ago, providence said:

I don’t think anyone expects people to be grateful. They get advice, they can take it or leave it. 

I probably correct my family members’ English more than anyone else. It’s annoyingly that they still barely know any English. Come on already. 

[strikethrough added to annoyingly to make it annoying, and to be annoying]

Wait, you did indicate you welcome correction of your use of the English language, did you not? :twisted:

Or if you were being meta, kudos!

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20 minutes ago, epeeist said:

[strikethrough added to annoyingly to make it annoying, and to be annoying]

Wait, you did indicate you welcome correction of your use of the English language, did you not? :twisted:

Or if you were being meta, kudos!

Oh crap, that was the phone. 

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Rest assured everyone I've passed with a university degree and know how to write.  

 

I'm conducting consults with tutors to find a different one. If anyone needs tutor suggestions that are familiar with 7sage pm me . 

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52 minutes ago, Destroythelsat said:

Rest assured everyone I've passed with a university degree and know how to write.  

 

I'm conducting consults with tutors to find a different one. If anyone needs tutor suggestions that are familiar with 7sage pm me . 

Good luck with finding a tutor. I agree with a previous poster that a tutor that is hard on you can be an asset but there should also be some level of mutual respect and compatibility.  After all this isn't just another undergraduate course.  This is a very important test whose difficulty is likely compounded by the compressed window of time one has to study for it.  I had a tutor last summer who claimed to be an Osgoode grad and who had claimed to have scored a 169 on the LSAT (though the tutor is now a graduate philosophy student).  All that may have been true (I couldn't verify any of this) but the 'tutor' was a most difficult teacher and there were two incidents of miscommunication which led the tutor to express a desire to 'fire' me as a student...it was very unpleasant.

I contrast that with the Harvard Ready classes I am taking now.  The formats are much different (larger class size to begin with) but the atmosphere is much more conducive to learning and tone is one of respect.  

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21 hours ago, PerisoreusCanadensis said:

Law school exams test your ability to write cogently under extreme time pressure. If you go to law school, you will need to learn to write clearly despite haste requirements. 

I think OP would probably care about the written product slightly more if it was a law school exam. I fail to see how this is useful whatsoever. Unless, of course, you just unveiled some unforeseen reality of law school, which you have not. There have been several posters comment, who possibly did not even read everyone else's comments, about how OP should write properly.

We get it, lets move on.

In relation to giving advice - If you aren't enjoying your time with this tutor, and you don't feel as if your comprehension of the section is advancing, get a new one or don't use a tutor. In my opinion, a tutor needs to 1) foster a learning environment, and 2) actually help you learn. If he or she is doing neither of these then I fail to see any purpose in using a tutor.

Best of luck.

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