Jump to content
Estrada

1L Grades Feedback For NY

Recommended Posts

Hey everyone, it seems from previous threads on the forum that NY typically only takes students from U of T, Osgoode, and McGill. I was wondering if anyone has heard of students from other schools getting hired to a big NY firm? 

My grades from 1L are:

Intro to Legal Skills: A

Torts: A

Criminal: A

Property: A

Public: A-

Constitutional: A-

Contracts: A-

My resume is nothing special, probably not better than what an average law student has on their resume. Although, I think my experiences would be quite unique. I don't want to say what I did in the interest of anonymity. If I did, people from my school would know that it is me.

 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Your grades are good, no question of that. Ask your CDO if any alumni have made the journey down there, and if it's known how they did it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I know several Ottawa U students who were hired at NYC firms. I have no idea about the grades required, but yours look pretty awesome. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Can I have your summaries?

 

JK! Great work on your 1L grades, and I wish you the best.  Not speaking from experience, but I wouldn't think it's expected to have an impressive resume after 1L for a traditional student. If nothing else, those EC/experiences you are referencing are probably at least as much of an asset to your application as relevant work experience for someone in your position.

Good luck whatever direction you end up in, you would seem to be on the path for an impressive career.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, TrqTTs said:

Can I have your summaries?

 

JK! Great work on your 1L grades, and I wish you the best.  Not speaking from experience, but I wouldn't think it's expected to have an impressive resume after 1L for a traditional student. If nothing else, those EC/experiences you are referencing are probably at least as much of an asset to your application as relevant work experience for someone in your position.

Good luck whatever direction you end up in, you would seem to be on the path for an impressive career.

The people I know that are in NY had pretty exceptional resumes, to be honest. I read them when I was prepping for the 1L recruit. 

I’m sure some of our resident NY lawyers can chime in on whether or not that’s standard or just my small sample size, though. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You definitely do not need an exceptional resume for New York, just grades. I’m sure your grades will get you interviews. 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I wouldn't fuss too much about whether or how many previous students from your school have gone. Apply to firms you'd want to work for. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Those are great grades, and they'll certainly help. It's worth noting though that in addition to grades, NY firms generally have a strange affinity for law journal and moot court experience.

Lots of firms have an e-mail or ViDesktop application that you can use to resume drop, so you don't necessarily need to be from Oz/UofT/McGill - but I'd certainly wager that it'll hinder you that you aren't from one of those schools.

From my experiences in NY and in the recruitment  process - I've found that a lot (but not all) of the lawyers from schools like Queens and Ottawa were either (1) Bay Street lawyers that lateraled to NY [typically Davies, Stikes, Torys or Osler] or (2) former clerks that were hired from their clerkships.

Best of luck!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
On 2018-05-23 at 8:53 AM, Estrada said:

Hey everyone, it seems from previous threads on the forum that NY typically only takes students from U of T, Osgoode, and McGill. I was wondering if anyone has heard of students from other schools getting hired to a big NY firm? 

My grades from 1L are:

Intro to Legal Skills: A

Torts: A

Criminal: A

Property: A

Public: A-

Constitutional: A-

Contracts: A-

My resume is nothing special, probably not better than what an average law student has on their resume. Although, I think my experiences would be quite unique. I don't want to say what I did in the interest of anonymity. If I did, people from my school would know that it is me.

 

Find a list of “large or desirable NYC firms”—whichever ones you personally think you might be interested in working in. Start with a wide net and you can narrow down; some of them will narrow it down for you.

Go to the firm websites. Use the search function to filter through the lawyers. You can also try searching Google. Search would look something like: site:http://www.firmname.com/ “Your University Name”. Try to find (a) alum from your law school, (b) alum from your undergrad/grad degree(s), (c) people with whom you have something else in common (Canadianness, passion for a particular pro bono thing, practice group, past job experience). Reach out to those people by email. Ask them if they’d be willing to speak to you about their firm/their career/give general advice. Phone chat with them if they respond! Don’t go looking for them to give you a job, but do ask questions (especially of alum) about how they got to where they are. Express interest and enthusiasm. Decide whether their firm still sounds interesting to you. Keep track of who you talked to at which firms.

Apply via mass (e-)mailings. Many firms open these up in early July. Apply in early July if you can. Make sure to reference your conversation with an attorney in that office in your cover letter. Tailor them a sensible amount to the firm. State an interest in particular things that firm does, if you can—a practice group, an innovative policy or legal technology move, or a recent case or deal... something. On your resume, make sure to highlight journals, moots, scholarships, and honours you have from law school. Consider joining your school’s law review just to put it on there, if possible. If you have Latin honours or “first-class standing” or “distinction” or membership in an honour society from your undergraduate degree, make sure that’s clear from your resume. Make sure your resume is one page and conforms to the guidelines from top US law schools. To find these kinds of sample resumes, you can Google search something like: “Stanford Law School” 2L resume OCI filetype:pdf. Use legal action words to describe your work experience. Include your most recent/1L summer work experience and try to emphasize how it is law-related (e.g. try to use law-related action verbs—drafted, negotiated, wrote, analyzed, etc. If your law-related experience is weak, try to find a law professor who will let you help them with research over the summer (as a volunteer is fine). Include this on your resume under experience. Use specific detail in your interests—don’t say “reading,” say “experimental fiction” or “crime novels” or “Charles Bukowski.” Not “sports” but “ice hockey and softball.” It will help your resume jump out for people with similar interests, and it will make it easier for others to connect with you/think of questions to ask you.

For your transcript, ask if your CDO can attach an addendum with any information about your class rank/percentile. It can only help you if they will! If not, those grades are fantastic and you should feel confident about them anyway.

Make sure your voice mail message is professional. Answer calls and emails promptly if they arrive.

Prepare fairly aggressively for your interview. Learn about the firm, be prepared to ask specific questions, be familiar with your interviewers’ practice areas/groups, etc. Make yourself cheat sheets and prime yourself before interviews.

Also make a clear narrative about yourself and what your strengths and interests are. Firms will want to see, at a minimum, that you have some leaning about whether you want to be a litigator or a transactional lawyer. Do not say you want to do entertainment law if the firm doesn’t have that kind of practice! Do your homework. Also speak confidently and enthusiastically about your strengths—Americans are a little bit (not enormously, but definitely a little bit) more forward in interviews. They sell themselves. Be confident and enthusiastic in interviews, so that you don’t come across flat. Not Harvey Spector confident, not self-effacing, either.

DO have a coherent narrative about “why US/why NYC” in your back pocket. Bigger market with more challenges, family in the area, interested in learning about niche areas and their firm is a market leader in xyz. They may ask if you’ve spent time in NYC/the US before. If no, have a “No, but” answer at the ready.

Familiarize yourself with the immigration stuff prior to any interviews, if you can; ask your network and your network’s network about the ways to get authorization to work in the US for the summer, so that you can respond confidently about it if asked. But do not bring it up yourself! Focus on expressing enthusiasm for the firm and discussing what you bring to the table. If immigration questions are brought up (somewhat unlikely), answer candidly and confidently about what you’ve found, and politely steer the conversation back towards your value proposition. Don’t get bogged down! You want them to remember you, not the ins and outs of TN /H1-B visas or what have you. If you are a dual citizen, doesn’t hurt to reference it in passing if you can slip it in. If they have an office that you could lateral to in the event of a change in immigration policy (e.g. Toronto), it doesn’t hurt to express your knowledge of that. But again, brief, focus on NYC, turn convo back to the firm and your candidacy.

If you apply widely, I feel optimistic about your chances. Send those emails! The more widely you apply, the better your odds. If time is an issue, prioritize firms that you’ve found to have a history of hiring Canadians.

Firms are looking to hire bright, motivated people—show that you are one.

Edited by cumulus
To clarify that mailing was metaphorical.
  • Like 2
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Does anyone know where I can find a list of the top NY firms that is reliable? I have searched online but seen different rankings. When students speak of doing ‘big law’ in NY which firms (is it top 10, top 50) are being referred to ? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Right now is the best time to recruit in New York because of the amazing economy. You definitely have a chance. I would look beyond NYC to all of the US offices (CA, BOS, etc.)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
48 minutes ago, mea2018 said:

Does anyone know where I can find a list of the top NY firms that is reliable? I have searched online but seen different rankings. When students speak of doing ‘big law’ in NY which firms (is it top 10, top 50) are being referred to ? 

AmLaw 200 firms are Big Law in NYC. New York City is a huge market, top 10 is totally ridiculous. At a minimum you should look at top 100 both by revenue and profitability.

Edited by chirico
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
On 5/23/2018 at 9:53 PM, Estrada said:

Hey everyone, it seems from previous threads on the forum that NY typically only takes students from U of T, Osgoode, and McGill. I was wondering if anyone has heard of students from other schools getting hired to a big NY firm? 

My grades from 1L are:

Intro to Legal Skills: A

Torts: A

Criminal: A

Property: A

Public: A-

Constitutional: A-

Contracts: A-

My resume is nothing special, probably not better than what an average law student has on their resume. Although, I think my experiences would be quite unique. I don't want to say what I did in the interest of anonymity. If I did, people from my school would know that it is me.

 

This is just my opinion, but grades are just the entry point. I would try to spin my resume to make it about NYC and whatever area you are interested in. In my opinion, they usually hire people that have a link to NYC. I would at least have a convincing story about why you love NYC at a bare minimum. I wouldn't be surprised if they asked you how much time you spent in NYC or what is your favorite restaurant in NYC. Mine is Sushi Yasuda, feel free to use that answer or tell them it was your favorite even before it had a Michelin star.

About immigration, I would just tell them that the TN visa is automatic and that there is nothing to worry about for Canadians.

Edited by chirico

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 6/14/2018 at 4:00 AM, TortsIllustrated said:

From my experiences in NY and in the recruitment  process - I've found that a lot (but not all) of the lawyers from schools like Queens and Ottawa were either (1) Bay Street lawyers that lateraled to NY [typically Davies, Stikes, Torys or Osler] or (2) former clerks that were hired from their clerkships.

I agree. NYC firms are focused on schools in their hiring (and in my experience care less about grades than you imagine).

If you don't get in now, you can definitely lateral later (if the economy is good) from average big Canadian law firms.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
On 2018-06-27 at 7:52 PM, chirico said:

Right now is the best time to recruit in New York because of the amazing economy. You definitely have a chance. I would look beyond NYC to all of the US offices (CA, BOS, etc.)

I am wondering how CA works for students at Canadian law schools. To my knowledge, one has to obtain a bar membership from a different state — NY being the most common jurisdiction— if he/she did not go to an ABA accredited school. 

Edited by dannyboy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, dannyboy said:

I am wondering how CA works for students at Canadian law schools. To my knowledge, one has to obtain a bar membership from a different state — NY being the most common jurisdiction— if he/she did not go to an ABA accredited school. 

That is my understanding as well (based on my career services office). They did mention there is a way you can "challenge" that your curriculum covers the ABA requirements, but it was made to sound like you would be most likely unsuccessful in doing this. 

Seems a bit more complicated to head down to CA. Haven't heard of any Canadian students summering at firms in CA, although NALP does show that some firms technically accept summer applications from non-US law schools.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, lawndromat said:

That is my understanding as well (based on my career services office). They did mention there is a way you can "challenge" that your curriculum covers the ABA requirements, but it was made to sound like you would be most likely unsuccessful in doing this. 

Seems a bit more complicated to head down to CA. Haven't heard of any Canadian students summering at firms in CA, although NALP does show that some firms technically accept summer applications from non-US law schools.

I had an offer to summer in CA this summer. I don’t know how it would have worked or if it’s hard to go there post grad, but it’s definitely possible to summer there. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Is it pretty safe to assume that if you aren't from an Ontario school, McGill, or UBC, you're wasting your time applying to nyc firms for summer positions?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
28 minutes ago, Phokis said:

Is it pretty safe to assume that if you aren't from an Ontario school, McGill, or UBC, you're wasting your time applying to nyc firms for summer positions?

Dal might be on that list too, but you’re generally right. You never know though! If you want to do it, you should apply and let the firms decide. The bar is probably higher, but it’s not like all vault 100 firms have a “No U of A” rule. 

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.



  • Recent Posts

    • Hey there, tagging along on this post.. does anyone know how they consider exchange grades? I did a semester abroad in third year, second semester and had a pretty decent GPA there and OLSAS has received/ reviewed that transcript... but not sure what schools do re: L2... any thoughts? Thanks!
    • https://www.justice.gc.ca/eng/csj-sjc/rfc-dlc/ccrf-ccdl/check/art15.html
    • Hi, I was curious what statute and exactly where does it state that everyone is equal in law?
    • Background: My cold diagnostic score was about 135 (43% correct on 101 question test) two months ago. Have been studying casually since then, perhaps <10 hours in total because of school. Studying mainly with Mcgraw Hill prep's online course that accompanies the book. I did an online practice test this morning and scored about 138 (45% correct on 101 question test). Scenario: - Goal score is 165. - Registered for January 26th LSAT (about 6 weeks time). - Will have time to study full time 40hrs or more a week. - Current resources: The LSAT Trainer, Mcgraw Hill prep book (2017), Baron's Logic Games prep book, Baron's General prep book, Kaplan's LSAT Premier (2016-2017) prep book, and Princeton Review LSAT Decoded Prep Tests 72-76.  - PT1 Results: Arguments 1 = 68% correct, Arguments 2 = 44% correct, Reading Comprehension = 28% correct, Logic Games = 38% correct Questions: 1. What should I focus on with my current resources of books? 2. Should I buy the 7Sage online course to prep? 3. If you were in my shoes, how would you schedule your time? 4. Any other advice?
    • Two individuals in 4th year (one referred to "last year of studies") posted their stats on the accepted thread today. I think that settles the currently still in school aspect of the debate. 
×