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Bay St Articles Offers

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Hey - I am wondering when do Bay St firms send out their commitment to offering articles? At my firm they noted it would be before the application deadline (July 6) - I was just wondering how much sooner than that deadline would they extend their unofficial offer, because it takes time to prepare applications. 

 

Thanks

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13 minutes ago, torontonian said:

Hey - I am wondering when do Bay St firms send out their commitment to offering articles? At my firm they noted it would be before the application deadline (July 6) - I was just wondering how much sooner than that deadline would they extend their unofficial offer, because it takes time to prepare applications. 

 

Thanks

I would put it to you this way, are you currently engaging in any or all of the following activities:

(i) leaking secret client information to your frat buddy securities trader;

(ii) running a side hustle of stealing millions of dollars of printer paper, pens and staples from the supply room and selling it on Amazon;

(iii) operating an international child sex slavery ring from your apartment and currently plan on recruiting the managing partner's teenage daughter. 

Because short of a crime of that magnitude, they will be making you an offer. So don't worry about it, if it's an issue, you'll know. 

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1 hour ago, maximumbob said:

I would put it to you this way, are you currently engaging in any or all of the following activities:

(i) leaking secret client information to your frat buddy securities trader;

(ii) running a side hustle of stealing millions of dollars of printer paper, pens and staples from the supply room and selling it on Amazon;

(iii) operating an international child sex slavery ring from your apartment and currently plan on recruiting the managing partner's teenage daughter. 

Because short of a crime of that magnitude, they will be making you an offer. So don't worry about it, if it's an issue, you'll know. 

You forgot getting really drunk, stripping naked and announcing you fucked a senior partner's wife at the firm bbq. 

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3 minutes ago, providence said:

You forgot getting really drunk, stripping naked and announcing you fucked a senior partner's wife at the firm bbq. 

Yeah, or attending the celebration of your firm’s merger with another firm, hopping up on a table and taking “it” out.  Don’t do that either. 

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18 minutes ago, maximumbob said:

Yeah, or attending the celebration of your firm’s merger with another firm, hopping up on a table and taking “it” out.  Don’t do that either. 

Speaking from experience? :)

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7 minutes ago, providence said:

Speaking from experience? :)

Well,  not mine, but a well documented one.  

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10 minutes ago, maximumbob said:

Well,  not mine, but a well documented one.  

Well then what am I supposed to do if I don’t like the merger? :( 

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2 minutes ago, BlockedQuebecois said:

Well then what am I supposed to do if I don’t like the merger? :( 

When you’re the name partner of one of the merging firms, you should like it. 

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2 minutes ago, BlockedQuebecois said:

Well then what am I supposed to do if I don’t like the merger? :( 

Vaguebook/humblebrag about it on social media like all the other articling students!

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Yeah, don't worry about it. In my year the articling offer actually came after the deadline to apply, which is a testament to how little the firms consider that you'd be worried about having to apply elsewhere.

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1 hour ago, maximumbob said:

When you’re the name partner of one of the merging firms, you should like it. 

Depends on if my name was staying on the letterhead. 

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6 hours ago, BlockedQuebecois said:

Depends on if my name was staying on the letterhead. 

It was staying on the firm logo.  Note the past tense.  

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9 hours ago, maximumbob said:

Well,  not mine, but a well documented one.  

Oh do tell! 

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2 hours ago, maximumbob said:

Out of curiosity, do people think it would still be possible to build a Tory’s level Bay Street firm from scratch, or did that ship sail in the 80s? I get the feeling that the major players are established and newcomers will hit a ceiling, but I don’t know for sure. 

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Not to fear monger, but I do know one person who summered at a firm and was not given an articling offer because several of the partners just didn't like him.  He was probably not the best researcher, and I know there were complaints that he was annoying. The firm didn't tell him until 5 days before the Toronto application deadline. He did end up landing somewhere though - got his articles completed and is now a lawyer on Bay.

 

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10 minutes ago, BlockedQuebecois said:

Out of curiosity, do people think it would still be possible to build a Tory’s level Bay Street firm from scratch, or did that ship sail in the 80s? I get the feeling that the major players are established and newcomers will hit a ceiling, but I don’t know for sure. 

Well, there's no doubt that it would be hard.  But then Davies was started from scratch in the 1960s, so was (the now defunct) Goodman and Carr, Stikes was started from scratch in the 1950s, Torys was started from scratch in the 1940s - at a time when other firms, firms that are no longer considered top-tier law firms (or which no longer exist), were dominant players in the market. All of which is  to say that the market evolves slowly, but it does evolve - someone has probably already established the next Torys, we just won't realize it for a few decades.    

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Posted (edited)

Litigation firms are built from scratch regularly. Boies left Cravath to create Boies Schiller and John Quinn did something similar. QE’s PPP now exceeds Cravath’s and BSF’s isn’t far off.  The same happened with Lenczner, who were all McCarthys guys I think, although they have remained much more of a boutique than QE or BSF. 

This is much easier in litigation because you don’t really need to be a full service firm to offer litigation services. 

Technically you don’t need to be a full service firm to do corporate either but it’s harder to do this. Wachtell really only does M&A, with obviously some support from tax/ERISA etc.  You could imagine a scenario where a bunch of M&A partners break off from a place like Davies and start the next Wachtell. 

Edited by NYCLawyer
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1 hour ago, maximumbob said:

Well, there's no doubt that it would be hard.  But then Davies was started from scratch in the 1960s, so was (the now defunct) Goodman and Carr, Stikes was started from scratch in the 1950s, Torys was started from scratch in the 1940s - at a time when other firms, firms that are no longer considered top-tier law firms (or which no longer exist), were dominant players in the market. All of which is  to say that the market evolves slowly, but it does evolve - someone has probably already established the next Torys, we just won't realize it for a few decades.    

It's an interesting question, I think the hurdle in a firm moving to the next 'tier' is having at least one client in the higher tier you want to attract. That either happens very slowly, or you are roommates with the next Zuckerberg and your firm grows with his, allowing you to attract other top tier clients.

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