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U of T vs top US

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4 hours ago, maximumbob said:

You're going to cuckold her with a succession of swarthier, more American, men?  

 

Precisely 

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1 minute ago, MinesAndMinerals said:

Have you ever lived there? I ask myself the same question about Canada quite often.

Yeah I have, did my undergrad in the US.

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12 minutes ago, hl545 said:

Besides all the talk about money, I don't get why people would want to live in the US. I sure wouldn't...

I loved living in the US. It has some beautiful places and amazing people and sometimes I miss it a lot. 

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4 hours ago, maximumbob said:

You're going to cuckold her with a succession of swarthier, more American, men?  

Someone lend that man a dictionary...

 

If he wants to marry her and then cheat on her with swarthy American men it could be true. 

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25 minutes ago, hl545 said:

Besides all the talk about money, I don't get why people would want to live in the US. I sure wouldn't...

I could see it - places like NY or Chicago (I assume the people talking about going to Harvard aren't contemplating a farming law practice in Podunk Missouri) have a lot to offer people that Toronto, nice place that it is (what with Downsview Park, Mel Lastman Square and the Scarborough Town Center, which I'm told are some of the highlights), doesn't.  Especially if you're young and don't have kids.  

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Just now, maximumbob said:

I could see it - places like NY or Chicago (I assume the people talking about going to Harvard aren't contemplating a farming law practice in Podunk Missouri) have a lot to offer people that Toronto, nice place that it is (what with Downsview Park, Mel Lastman Square and the Scarborough Town Center, which I'm told are some of the highlights), doesn't.  Especially if you're young and don't have kids.  

Why would being young and not having kids make a difference? My kids love the US. There are some lovely places in the south too and the weather is great. The food is good too. 

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Just now, providence said:

If he wants to marry her and then cheat on her with swarthy American men it could be true. 

Yes, but "cuckold" is a gender specific term - I assumed he wants to cheat on her with swarthy American men, but that isn't cuckolding.  Hence the reference to lending the man a dictionary: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/cuckold

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Just now, providence said:

Why would being young and not having kids make a difference? My kids love the US. There are some lovely places in the south too and the weather is great. The food is good too. 

Yes, but living in NY or Chicago with kids is a very different kettle of fish than without.   Yeah, there a nice places in the south, but there are nice places everywhere - but there aren't NYs or Chicagos everywhere.  

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8 minutes ago, providence said:

Hey it’s a new age - if men can be sluts then women can be cuckolded!

For shame, and you a litigator, to abuse the english language in such a manner.  The proper term is cuckqueaned.   

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3 minutes ago, maximumbob said:

Yes, but living in NY or Chicago with kids is a very different kettle of fish than without.   Yeah, there a nice places in the south, but there are nice places everywhere - but there aren't NYs or Chicagos everywhere.  

Chicago is pretty special with or without kids. I can take or leave NY. I agree it costs alot to live there with kids, but I’m not sure living in Chicago with kids is much more expensive than Vancouver or Toronto with kids. NYC is another story. 

Also, there aren’t a lot of places with sub-tropical weather and scenery in industrialized countries in the Western Hemisphere. 

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7 minutes ago, maximumbob said:

For shame, and you a litigator, to abuse the english language in such a manner.  The proper term is cuckqueaned.   

Sadly I have never had the opportunity to use that in court :(

I learned about cuckolds in high school when we studied Shakespeare. The teacher never mentioned cuckqueans. 

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On 3/5/2018 at 3:40 PM, NathanDrake said:

Its more like 62-64% when you take into account NY job offers and you cite the 54% number reffered here. https://ultravires.ca/wp/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/UV-February-2018-Recruitment-Special-1.pdf. Keep in mind that the 54% is all referring to all students in the class (205) so its assuming that every single person is applying to a Bay St job (and assuming the no one in the class went to Alberta and British Columbia). So the number is most certainty significantly higher, but I will use the most conservative estimate. 

I understand that a simple 10% here or there may seem like nit-picking but considering your reliance on these numbers is seems really odd that you refuse to use the right numbers even though a number of UofT students have corrected you in previous threads (including myself in this thread a few posts up). 

I'm wondering about this as well. I've heard the 50-60% statistic, but I've talked to some UofT students and they said that figure doesn't take into account the students who go to New York, as well as the students who want to do PI/government work. So if you assume ~10% go to NYC, and ~10% go the PI/gov route that 50-60% would be ~70-80%. Anecdotally, I've also heard from UofT students that most UofT students who want a Bay Street job, tend to end up getting one (of course, that could be just a function of who I've talked to). I'm not sure if this is true- can anyone offer any clarification on these numbers? I'm also debating US vs. UofT and this is one of the most important factors in my decision.

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14 minutes ago, summermarie said:

I'm wondering about this as well. I've heard the 50-60% statistic, but I've talked to some UofT students and they said that figure doesn't take into account the students who go to New York, as well as the students who want to do PI/government work. So if you assume ~10% go to NYC, and ~10% go the PI/gov route that 50-60% would be ~70-80%. Anecdotally, I've also heard from UofT students that most UofT students who want a Bay Street job, tend to end up getting one (of course, that could be just a function of who I've talked to). I'm not sure if this is true- can anyone offer any clarification on these numbers? I'm also debating US vs. UofT and this is one of the most important factors in my decision.

Look, if you're good enough that you'd be snagged by a big US firm, you should be good enough to get snagged by a big Canadian firm - so the percentages are really irrelevant. 

But It really comes down to where you want to work. In Canada, UofT. In the US (and probably internationally, generally), probably better off in the US. That's what it really comes down to. 

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24 minutes ago, maximumbob said:

Look, if you're good enough that you'd be snagged by a big US firm, you should be good enough to get snagged by a big Canadian firm - so the percentages are really irrelevant. 

But It really comes down to where you want to work. In Canada, UofT. In the US (and probably internationally, generally), probably better off in the US. That's what it really comes down to. 

So you're saying that someone who can get into Harvard should feel assured of getting top 50% marks at U of T? I know for me that would not have been a good bet. Not to mention the very different demographic and business interests of American and Canadian firms (Canadian firms are much smaller, and hire much more based on fit, which often means class/race). All I can say is that the majority of U of T students who go through OCI probably are successful, but at Harvard, I don't know a single student without a biglaw job, even the one person I know who struck out at OCI was helped by the career office to find a market paying (180k) biglaw job. It's all a question of whether you want to roll the dice or have the guarantee. I continue to maintain that students going to U of T law should be prepared to enter into smaller practice at lower pay if biglaw doesn't work out.

Edited by Livinginamerica
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3 hours ago, Livinginamerica said:

So you're saying that someone who can get into Harvard should feel assured of getting top 50% marks at U of T? I know for me that would not have been a good bet. Not to mention the very different demographic and business interests of American and Canadian firms (Canadian firms are much smaller, and hire much more based on fit, which often means class/race). All I can say is that the majority of U of T students who go through OCI probably are successful, but at Harvard, I don't know a single student without a biglaw job, even the one person I know who struck out at OCI was helped by the career office to find a market paying (180k) biglaw job. It's all a question of whether you want to roll the dice or have the guarantee. I continue to maintain that students going to U of T law should be prepared to enter into smaller practice at lower pay if biglaw doesn't work out.

.

 

 

Edited by NathanDrake

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4 hours ago, Livinginamerica said:

So you're saying that someone who can get into Harvard should feel assured of getting top 50% marks at U of T? I know for me that would not have been a good bet. Not to mention the very different demographic and business interests of American and Canadian firms (Canadian firms are much smaller, and hire much more based on fit, which often means class/race). All I can say is that the majority of U of T students who go through OCI probably are successful, but at Harvard, I don't know a single student without a biglaw job, even the one person I know who struck out at OCI was helped by the career office to find a market paying (180k) biglaw job. It's all a question of whether you want to roll the dice or have the guarantee. I continue to maintain that students going to U of T law should be prepared to enter into smaller practice at lower pay if biglaw doesn't work out.

To be clear, are you implying that if you are someone who could not get a biglaw job through going to UofT due to really poor interviewing skills etc., you’d be guaranteed a biglaw job by going to Harvard instead? 

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11 minutes ago, hopefulcanadianlawyr said:

To be clear, are you implying that if you are someone who could not get a biglaw job through going to UofT due to really poor interviewing skills etc., you’d be guaranteed a biglaw job by going to Harvard instead? 

Yes, by virtue of there being many more biglaw positions in America, a strong favoritism towards HYS, and very strong support and networks from OCS to assist people at the bottom of the class attain market paying jobs. The student who missed biglaw at U of T (and who wanted it), and who could have gone to HYS, made a mistake, plain and simple.

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4 hours ago, Livinginamerica said:

So you're saying that someone who can get into Harvard should feel assured of getting top 50% marks at U of T? I know for me that would not have been a good bet. Not to mention the very different demographic and business interests of American and Canadian firms (Canadian firms are much smaller, and hire much more based on fit, which often means class/race). All I can say is that the majority of U of T students who go through OCI probably are successful, but at Harvard, I don't know a single student without a biglaw job, even the one person I know who struck out at OCI was helped by the career office to find a market paying (180k) biglaw job. It's all a question of whether you want to roll the dice or have the guarantee. I continue to maintain that students going to U of T law should be prepared to enter into smaller practice at lower pay if biglaw doesn't work out.

Lots of people at Harvard don't go into biglaw. They have financial assistance so people can take public interest/NGO internships. 

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1 minute ago, Livinginamerica said:

Yes, by virtue of there being many more biglaw positions in America, a strong favoritism towards HYS, and very strong support and networks from OCS to assist people at the bottom of the class attain market paying jobs. The student who missed biglaw at U of T (and who wanted it), and who could have gone to HYS, made a mistake, plain and simple.

Except tuition at HYS is crazy unless you're poor. 

Class of 2016 employment data:

http://hls.harvard.edu/dept/ocs/recent-employment-data/

349 of 588 are in law firms, of which 287 are in big firms. 137 have clerkships. They're certainly not all in biglaw.

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