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Recent calls - could you pls provide some guidance regarding what’s a competitive offer for hire back?

Making 38k for articling, offered 58k for hire back after the June call. Smaller firm (not downtown to). 

Obviously we have our whole careers to make $$ and there’s much more to law and life then that, but as a starting basis I’m wondering whether that a fair offer or if I’m better off rolling the dice and applying elsewhere. Thanks y’all. 

 

 

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Congrats on the offer!  I'm afraid I don't know whether it's fair for the market but it's always better to have an offer than not.

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Do you like the work? The practice area? The people you work with? Are you happy there?

This to me is just as important to consider as is whether you can hypothetically make more money elsewhere.

Also, where are you located?

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44 minutes ago, NYCLawyer said:

Congrats on the offer!  I'm afraid I don't know whether it's fair for the market but it's always better to have an offer than not.

Thanks!

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31 minutes ago, providence said:

Do you like the work? The practice area? The people you work with? Are you happy there?

This to me is just as important to consider as is whether you can hypothetically make more money elsewhere.

Also, where are you located?

Located in the GTA (rather keep my responses somewhat non-specific for anonymity).

The people I work with - meh some good some not so good, but I suppose you’d find that anywhere. Practice is litigation heavy which I enjoy. 

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I would take it, there seems to be a much stronger market for 1-3 year calls

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1 minute ago, Eeee said:

I would take it, there seems to be a much stronger market for 1-3 year calls

Right and you have a fair point; you’re obviously a lot more “marketable” with some experience under your belt. I’ve heard of some people trying to negotiate but I want to try and determine whether the offer is within a fair range for a 1st year 

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As a heads up OP, I'm guessing that "[articling salary], just got an offer, [first year salary], the location you provided, and "litigation heavy" are probably enough to do some serious damage to anonymity. Might be prudent to edit.

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13 hours ago, hogwartslawyer said:

Recent calls - could you pls provide some guidance regarding what’s a competitive offer for hire back?

Making 38k for articling, offered 58k for hire back after the June call. Smaller firm (not downtown to). 

Obviously we have our whole careers to make $$ and there’s much more to law and life then that, but as a starting basis I’m wondering whether that a fair offer or if I’m better off rolling the dice and applying elsewhere. Thanks y’all. 

 

 

IMHO, 58k is a reasonable salary for a 1st year lawyer in a small market. If you perform well over the next couple of years, you'll have the billings to objectively request a raise. I'd start there and see where it takes you.

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2 hours ago, Luckycharm said:

did you look elsewhere?

Haven’t been looking yet as I’ve been preoccupied, but that’s why I’m trying to send out a feeler for what others have been getting paid as a first year. Definitely will keep my eyes open though. 

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My view generally is work for a year if you can swing the 58k and with a year of practice under your belt you have a lot more flexibility. 

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It's not outside the norm, though anecdotally I get the sense it is at the lower end of the spectrum for the (broad) area, but not for the size of practice.

My own (reasonably recent) experience relative to yours: I wholeheartedly took only about 5% extra for articling, for what I viewed as interesting and professional-growth-promoting work. I negotiated hard for about 30-35% extra to your number for first year post call--I wanted to stay and my employer really wanted me to stay if we could make the numbers work. Because I was given, and handled, fairly high responsibility early on, with better-than-expected results, I probably had a better-than-average negotiating position.

While the paragraph above is individualized, I wanted to point out more generally that you can improve your bargaining position (and perceived value) even if you accept what is on the table in front of you now. Just don't do it reluctantly, in terms of how you approach your post-call experience. The acquisition of litigation experience and self confidence is rapid early on, so I would make the most of it--with the realization that I can either justifiably ask for more in 6-18 months' time or that I would make myself more marketable elsewhere if needed.

 

On 1/22/2018 at 12:50 AM, Ambit said:

As a heads up OP, I'm guessing that "[articling salary], just got an offer, [first year salary], the location you provided, and "litigation heavy" are probably enough to do some serious damage to anonymity. Might be prudent to edit.

I've kept my numbers purposely vague(r), but I don't think OP's potential breach of anonymity is likely to expose OP's identity to anyone other than the employer making that offer (and a small circle of OP's acquaintances, already familiar with the situation). It's unlikely to have any significant consequence, even if the employer found out both that there is potential reluctance and some reasonable inquiry into where the market stands.

Edited by cluj

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12 hours ago, cluj said:

It's not outside the norm, though anecdotally I get the sense it is at the lower end of the spectrum for the (broad) area, but not for the size of practice.

My own (reasonably recent) experience relative to yours: I wholeheartedly took only about 5% extra for articling, for what I viewed as interesting and professional-growth-promoting work. I negotiated hard for about 30-35% extra to your number for first year post call--I wanted to stay and my employer really wanted me to stay if we could make the numbers work. Because I was given, and handled, fairly high responsibility early on, with better-than-expected results, I probably had a better-than-average negotiating position.

While the paragraph above is individualized, I wanted to point out more generally that you can improve your bargaining position (and perceived value) even if you accept what is on the table in front of you now. Just don't do it reluctantly, in terms of how you approach your post-call experience. The acquisition of litigation experience and self confidence is rapid early on, so I would make the most of it--with the realization that I can either justifiably ask for more in 6-18 months' time or that I would make myself more marketable elsewhere if needed.

 

I've kept my numbers purposely vague(r), but I don't think OP's potential breach of anonymity is likely to expose OP's identity to anyone other than the employer making that offer (and a small circle of OP's acquaintances, already familiar with the situation). It's unlikely to have any significant consequence, even if the employer found out both that there is potential reluctance and some reasonable inquiry into where the market stands.

All very good points, thx for sharing 

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