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LawSquid

Osgoode vs Queens- Pls Halp

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Hey, so I know these two have already been done together, or with some combination of U of T/ Western but I haven't really found all the answers that I'm looking for so I was hoping for your help! I've broken it down into the factors/pros/cons that I'm considering. 

Queens

-I went to UVic for undergrad so I feel more comfortable at a smaller school 

-Community is important to me, and Queens seems to have such a good one 

-I think I'm interested in criminal, and it would be a good opportunity to be near the prison 

-Cheaper tuition/living than Osgoode 

-The international law program in a castle looks 10/10 

 

Osgoode

- Osgoode seems to have a lot of room to grow 

-more diverse student body than Queens 

-closer to my family, in Hamilton, but if I went to Queens I would get a car

-it would be nice to live with other law students in Osgoode Chambers 

- From what I hear, it has the most class options for criminal, plus a lawyer I used to work for once said "if you want to be a litigator- go to Osgoode" 

-location networking oppertunities 

-more expensive tuition/ living 

 

I already have a fair amount of student debt, so maybe once I know how much each school may offer me in bursaries will also help to make the decision. I guess what I'm ultimately trying to figure out is if I think Osgoode is worth the extra cost for me. 

 

In advance- THANK YOU ALL SO MUCH :):):)   

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It seems like you have a solid understanding of what both schools offer. It comes down to how much you value the somewhat more courses/clinics/networking opps Osgoode offers compared to the community at Queens, IMO. I don’t think you could go wrong with either option. Have you had a chance to visit the campuses/law schools? 

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4 hours ago, LawSquid said:

Hey, so I know these two have already been done together, or with some combination of U of T/ Western but I haven't really found all the answers that I'm looking for so I was hoping for your help! I've broken it down into the factors/pros/cons that I'm considering. 

Queens

-I went to UVic for undergrad so I feel more comfortable at a smaller school 

-Community is important to me, and Queens seems to have such a good one 

-I think I'm interested in criminal, and it would be a good opportunity to be near the prison 

-Cheaper tuition/living than Osgoode 

-The international law program in a castle looks 10/10 

 

Osgoode

- Osgoode seems to have a lot of room to grow 

-more diverse student body than Queens 

-closer to my family, in Hamilton, but if I went to Queens I would get a car

-it would be nice to live with other law students in Osgoode Chambers 

- From what I hear, it has the most class options for criminal, plus a lawyer I used to work for once said "if you want to be a litigator- go to Osgoode" 

-location networking oppertunities 

-more expensive tuition/ living 

 

I already have a fair amount of student debt, so maybe once I know how much each school may offer me in bursaries will also help to make the decision. I guess what I'm ultimately trying to figure out is if I think Osgoode is worth the extra cost for me. 

 

In advance- THANK YOU ALL SO MUCH :):):)   

I'm also super interested in criminal and there were a few posts a couple days ago that suggested osgoode is actually far better for criminal now 

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If you are interested in criminal, Osgoode/York is conveniently located in a high crime area so you can easily get some hands-on experience with real criminals (or maybe they will be hands-on with you...) and start networking with possible future clients

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34 minutes ago, BayStreetOrBust said:

If you are interested in criminal, Osgoode/York is conveniently located in a high crime area so you can easily get some hands-on experience with real criminals (or maybe they will be hands-on with you...) and start networking with possible future clients

I can't even explain why, but this post really rubbed me the wrong way. Nothing you said is untrue. It's just.. agh.  How you wrote it? 

Maybe it's that I don't label people criminals as you do. But it's more than that. Those same "criminals" in that neighborhood are from the most marginalized communities in the city (and even country). Criminal lawyers aren't out there to build their book of business. I mean, some are. But the good ones aren't. And the way you wrote it just made it seem like criminal defence is about that. And it absolutely is not, and shouldn't be.

 

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It does seem like u know what the pros and cons of each school are. to second the previous comments, it is now up to you to reflect on your values and see where you would find yourself getting a more meaningful education. i personally love bigger cities because more opportunities and i do like having more room to grow, so i'm going to Osgoode

 

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The factors you've listed seem to be the exact things that have been discussed in the many other threads discussing these schools. You say that you've looked at those other threads, but "haven't really found all the answers that [you're] looking for". Perhaps you would get more concrete responses here if you told us specifically what information you're looking for that you haven't found elsewhere.

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18 hours ago, LawSquid said:

I already have a fair amount of student debt, so maybe once I know how much each school may offer me in bursaries will also help to make the decision. I guess what I'm ultimately trying to figure out is if I think Osgoode is worth the extra cost for me. 

No. 

What you seem to be looking for is a school with a sense of community, but also one that has a good criminal program and not cut-off from the major hubs. Queen's ticks all those boxes and, as you say, will be significantly cheaper.

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13 hours ago, BayStreetOrBust said:

If you are interested in criminal, Osgoode/York is conveniently located in a high crime area so you can easily get some hands-on experience with real criminals (or maybe they will be hands-on with you...) and start networking with possible future clients

But, in fairness, given all the prisons in the Kingston area, it also offers lots of opportunity to meet with real criminals, albeit in a controlled environment during business hours - Collins Bay, Joyceville, Millhaven....

 

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12 hours ago, BayStreetOrBust said:

If you are interested in criminal, Osgoode/York is conveniently located in a high crime area so you can easily get some hands-on experience with real criminals (or maybe they will be hands-on with you...) and start networking with possible future clients

Are you for real?

I have family members who live in that area. Some have criminal justice system involvement, some do not, but I never label either my family or my clients as “criminals” - they are much more than one aspect of some of their actions. 

I know you are “Bay Street or Bust”, so let’s hope you make it to Bay, but even if you do, a little compassion goes a long way. 

 

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12 hours ago, pzabbythesecond said:

I can't even explain why, but this post really rubbed me the wrong way. Nothing you said is untrue. It's just.. agh.  How you wrote it? 

Maybe it's that I don't label people criminals as you do. But it's more than that. Those same "criminals" in that neighborhood are from the most marginalized communities in the city (and even country). Criminal lawyers aren't out there to build their book of business. I mean, some are. But the good ones aren't. And the way you wrote it just made it seem like criminal defence is about that. And it absolutely is not, and shouldn't be.

 

I saw this after I posted. Thank you.

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In truth, there are probably more opportunities to meet with honest-to-goodness convicted criminals in Kingston than there are around Osgoode (it used to be all you had to do was flip someone off north of Princess, but that's all gentrifying now, so you pretty much have to volunteer with a clinic).

In any event, OP seems to have a good handle on his/her situation, and would I'm sure have a swell time at either school (but yes, all things being equal, I say go wherever is cheaper after scholarships/bursaries).

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Tens of thousands of students attend York University every day and is a very   safe  environment.  In some areas around York U there is a concentration of low income people but that does not make it  a crime infested area. And people who live in the area attend York U and Osgoode.   Now, if you are only comfortable with people who look like you,  speak like you, and share the same socio- economic status like you, this is not an area that you will be free of stress and fear. 

Edited by OZ2017
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1 hour ago, OZ2017 said:

Tens of thousands of students attend York University every day and is a very   safe  environment.  In some areas around York U there is a concentration of low income people but that does not make it  a crime infested area. And people who live in the area attend York U and Osgoode.   Now, if you are only comfortable with people who look like you,  speak like you, and share the same socio- economic status like you, this is not an area that you will be free of stress and fear. 

My main concerns are to do with York's numerous crimes against architecture. Did we beat the Jerries to confine ourselves to bunkers of our own making? I don't think so.

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On 1/10/2018 at 7:12 PM, LawSquid said:

once I know how much each school may offer me in bursaries will also help to make the decision.

Osgoode won't tell you what any possible bursary award would be. They will, at most, tell you that your financial statement suggests you would be eligible from a bursary ranging from $1,500 to $10,000.

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9 hours ago, providence said:

I know you are “Bay Street or Bust”, so let’s hope you make it to Bay, but even if you do, a little compassion goes a long way. 

I think I'd prefer people with such usernames bust, but to each their own. 

There's a reason such an obvious name went unselected until 2017 on this board. 

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2 hours ago, BlockedQuebecois said:

Osgoode won't tell you what any possible bursary award would be. They will, at most, tell you that your financial statement suggests you would be eligible from a bursary ranging from $1,500 to $10,000.

Oh that't really annoying, so you basically won't know how much Osgoode is willing to give you until you're already a student? 

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8 minutes ago, LawSquid said:

Oh that't really annoying, so you basically won't know how much Osgoode is willing to give you until you're already a student? 

Until November of first year, correct. 

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