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2018 2L Recruitment

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Gonna chime in in case this is helpful to anyone as there seems to be some misinformation above.

To my knowledge, Blaneys has sent out all of their offers.

WeirFoulds has sent out three offers and intends to send out three more by Friday - second and first round interviews are ongoing.

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18 minutes ago, sehwhen said:

Gonna chime in in case this is helpful to anyone as there seems to be some misinformation above.

To my knowledge, Blaneys has sent out all of their offers.

WeirFoulds has sent out three offers and intends to send out three more by Friday - second and first round interviews are ongoing.

 

I was told specifically by the firm that they had made 4 offers and were going to save 2 for the articling recruit. 

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1 hour ago, DenningsSkiTrip said:

Gotta be this year, last year they hired 3 in OCIs and 3 in January. 

how do you know about this year? did you reach out to recruitment people?

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20 minutes ago, sman99 said:

I was told specifically by the firm that they had made 4 offers and were going to save 2 for the articling recruit. 

when did they tell you this? 

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24 minutes ago, sman99 said:

I was told specifically by the firm that they had made 4 offers and were going to save 2 for the articling recruit. 

Strange! My information also comes specifically from the recruiter.

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On 11/20/2017 at 4:34 PM, DorianGray said:

(Apologies if this is not an appropriate place to ask this)

I am curious to know if 2L OCI summer jobs generally result in articling offers. I have heard many students say that articling is essentially 'guaranteed,' so long as you don't burn the house down. 

Assuming that you are a competent student, perform well, etc ... can it be reasonably expected that firms will invite you back for articling? Does this differ between large and small firms (Toronto OCI firms only)? I am particularly interested in the experience with the smaller OCI firms. If the answer is no, what is the etiquette surrounding the articling recruit?

Yes.  And speaking from experience you can literally do the next-best thing to actually burning the firm down and still get hired back.

Look at it from our perspective rather than yours --- we need articling students to do our work.  2L summer is just a lot of wasted cash; you can barely get started on anything before you have to go.  We're only paying you for 1L or 2L summer in order to get your services as an articling student.  So we're strongly disincentivized from not bringing you back to do the work you were hired to do. 

Plus, you're still a draft pick.  Everyone shows up for three months and screws everything up.  Just because you screwed stuff up 40% more than your colleague who only screwed half her stuff up doesn't mean there's no upside there.  We drafted you, we're keeping you to see what we've got.  It would be really hard for you to interview so well as to get the job, then perform so poorly that we'd actually take an $80,000 hit just to get rid of you.  (Number a very vague estimate.)

On 11/21/2017 at 5:03 PM, drankcoffee said:

Wow, is this a common thing that happens every year or do you think it was specifically an outlier for your year? What do you think motivated the change?

At least three or four people a year ditch their OCI jobs to go to MAG.  I'm not kidding when I say this isn't for everyone.  If you can tell right up front that you're not going to be happy in this job and that you'd prefer MAG, moving early is a good idea.  You still have lots of available articling positions rather than trying to fight your way in as a called lawyer picking up a mat leave contract.

On 11/22/2017 at 9:48 AM, conge said:

My impression is that there are two ways to Bay Street if not via law school recruitment:

Be a really good associate somewhere else for 1-5 years,  and when Bay Street firms are looking for a lateral in your area of specialization, throw your hat in to the ring and try to leverage the relationships you already have at the firm to get the job.

Or have a good book of business as a partner in another firm, and bring that to a Bay Street firm when they need the business/specialization you offer.

Or both.  Everyone wants a fifth year specialist associate, or a third-year with a little book.

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1 hour ago, hmyo said:

is Blaneys also done with hiring?

I heard through the grapevine that someone received a rejection email from Blaneys today. Apparently the email said that all of their offers had gone out.

 

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1 hour ago, harbottle said:

I heard through the grapevine that someone received a rejection email from Blaneys today. Apparently the email said that all of their offers had gone out.

 

Fake news.

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6 minutes ago, harbottle said:

Sure. Notice the bold heard through the grapevine? 

Grapevines are outdated! I only trust pigeons. 

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In discussions around the "Black on Bay" story, one of my concerns was that such stories painted a misleading picture of biglaw which might intimidate or discourage lawyers from racialized backgrounds.  We see an example of that in that survey:

Quote

 I felt, going in, that interviewers had a preconceived notion of the people that they wanted in their firms/agencies and that I had to adhere to that as best I could to be considered. I also felt the need to be very sociable and not come across as introverted, as this is a personality trait that is not promoted as desirable in the profession. Being of mixed race was not something that I could hide, but I did question whether or not it had an impact on my chances of being offered a summer position. This was especially true in light of the “Black on Bay Street” article that was recently published in the Globe and Mail.

 So, this poor student went in feeling they were at as disadvantage practicing in biglaw by virtue of his or her "mixed race" status.  As if OCI's are nerve-wracking enough already.  

What we actually know, from the LSUC, is that 14% of White lawyer work at biglaw (firms bigger than 200 lawyers), 13% of Racialized lawyers work in biglaw, 15% of "Racialized and White" mixed race lawyers work in Biglaw, 14% of "more than one group" mixed race lawyers work in biglaw, which rather strongly suggests that being "mixed race" doesn't have much of an impact on the likelihood of you practicing in biglaw.  http://www.lsuc.on.ca/uploadedFiles/Equity_and_Diversity/Members2/Lawyer-Snapshot 2015.pdf

Might it not have helped that student if he or she had been presented with actual data?   If for no other reason than to take one thing off their mind.  

Aside, some of those response are rather sad, and suggest students who really aren't in control of their own lives.  Why would you interview at a firm you don't want to work at?  

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It's also not true that being "sociable" or "extroverted" are necessarily more desirable than the opposite. I mean, if you take "sociable" to mean nothing more than you aren't going to blow someone off rather than converse with them. I suspect it was meant more in the vein of "gregarious" or "talkative". People with those traits can talk themselves into a job, but can talk themselves out of one just as easily.

I'm not a "sociable" "extrovert". I win people over in social situations by being thoughtful and listening to what they have to say, rather than being the life of the party at the centre of attention. There is not one type of person that succeeds either at interviews or at lawyering.

 

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6 minutes ago, Jaggers said:

It's also not true that being "sociable" or "extroverted" are necessarily more desirable than the opposite. I mean, if you take "sociable" to mean nothing more than you aren't going to blow someone off rather than converse with them. I suspect it was meant more in the vein of "gregarious" or "talkative". People with those traits can talk themselves into a job, but can talk themselves out of one just as easily.

I'm not a "sociable" "extrovert". I win people over in social situations by being thoughtful and listening to what they have to say, rather than being the life of the party at the centre of attention. There is not one type of person that succeeds either at interviews or at lawyering.

 

No, I agree, but I think at the OCI stage the ability to sell yourself is important.  Nothing wrong with being introverted, but you do have to be able to come out of your shell enough to at least show a potential employer what you bring to the party. The two aren't mutually exclusive, but introverts might find the that second part awkward or uncomfortable (I certainly did when I did OCIs - obviously, I'm long since over that).  

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10 hours ago, CheezWhizKhalifa said:

But that BLG section though. It's not just them, I've been lead on and dropped by firms this recruit too (luckily I got a job) and have had firms indicate that I had an offer if I could say the magic ("first choice") words. I've heard so many stories from friends whose time was monopolized by a firm that led them on and then didn't offer.

I think that if firms expect us to only tell one of them that they are our first choice, then they shouldn't be deceptive themselves as well. It almost makes me want to tell the students who will go through the recruit to not trust anything anyone says, to hedge their bets, and maybe even tell more than one firm "first choice" to make sure that they don't get screwed. Firms can easily find another candidate, but if a student doesn't get a job because they spent time at a firm that was deceiving them all along, their path to Bay St becomes so much more difficult.

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28 minutes ago, Dart said:

But that BLG section though. It's not just them, I've been lead on and dropped by firms this recruit too (luckily I got a job) and have had firms indicate that I had an offer if I could say the magic ("first choice") words. I've heard so many stories from friends whose time was monopolized by a firm that led them on and then didn't offer.

I think that if firms expect us to only tell one of them that they are our first choice, then they shouldn't be deceptive themselves as well. It almost makes me want to tell the students who will go through the recruit to not trust anything anyone says, to hedge their bets, and maybe even tell more than one firm "first choice" to make sure that they don't get screwed. Firms can easily find another candidate, but if a student doesn't get a job because they spent time at a firm that was deceiving them all along, their path to Bay St becomes so much more difficult.

But there's a difference between a firm showing interest and saying "first choice". The firm never says first choice. The firm shows interest. Just because that doesn't end up in an offer doesn't mean they weren't supremely interested and didn't make the decision between you and that other person they really liked too. 

 

Intent and effect is different. I don't think any firm purposely screws students over who they have no intention in hiring. It seems.. inefficient given what the process entails from them.

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The firms I in-firmed with were all honest with me and did not pressure me into saying "first choice". While I'm not denying that there may be firms that play games, based on my experience (during last year's recruit) and the experiences of my peers, I think those firms are exceptions.

I also think that students should approach horror stories with a healthy amount of skepticism. I suspect that at least some of those stories are embellished.

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