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2018 2L Recruitment

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7 hours ago, hmyo said:

I'm with you. I understand the "whole firms love you and wouldn't waste time on you if you are not desired". But at the same time, the cost of dinner is not that much to a firm. There's no way they loved all the students they saw on day 2. I don't buy it but obviously that might be my disgruntledness talking. 

You'd be right. It's just a generic goodwill gesture in some cases. Can't argue that the system has a host of deficiencies. That said and albeit it seems like platitudes all the comments to the effect that there are many opportunities ahead are correct. This includes Bay Street opportunities. The first most direct route might have been closed. There are other routes. 

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IT is a goodwill gesture - they're not going to say "Man, you were terrible" even if you were.  But recall the context.  Each firm get's something like 1000 applicants.  If you're one of the 50-100 who made it to in-firms, they considered you a strong candidate. 

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52 minutes ago, Constant said:

You'd be right. It's just a generic goodwill gesture in some cases. Can't argue that the system has a host of deficiencies. That said and albeit it seems like platitudes all the comments to the effect that there are many opportunities ahead are correct. This includes Bay Street opportunities. The first most direct route might have been closed. There are other routes. 

Right. Which leads back to my original question - if all the feedback I get is "you were loved, but the process is tough". Well, why was I ranked #35 vs #3 on your list then? The margins are not really hair-thin then is it's?

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1 hour ago, Constant said:

You'd be right. It's just a generic goodwill gesture in some cases. Can't argue that the system has a host of deficiencies. That said and albeit it seems like platitudes all the comments to the effect that there are many opportunities ahead are correct. This includes Bay Street opportunities. The first most direct route might have been closed. There are other routes. 

What are the other ways to Bay Street for next summer? I only know of a few Bay Street firms that recruit from outside of the OCI process. How many firms (roughly) are now left?

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So I posted about second interviews getting cancelled earlier in the thread, and it seemed like there were multiple people this happened to. I looked it up on LSUC and this is what they have:

A firm that communicates its intention to interview a student must subsequently do so, unless the student has advised the firm that the student does not want to participate in the interview.

So not only is this rude its actually against the rules. Just a thought for any of you who personally had this happen - it might be worth discussing with your career office. 

Edited by magpie
typo

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8 minutes ago, switchdog said:

What are the other ways to Bay Street for next summer? I only know of a few Bay Street firms that recruit from outside of the OCI process. How many firms (roughly) are now left?

There are a number of smaller firms or boutiques that will start recruiting at this point, so I'd start applying right away. For the larger OCI firms, you won't be able to land there for next summer, but there's a chance they may participate in the articling recruit and so you can end up articling on Bay Street if you so desire.

 

2 minutes ago, magpie said:

So I posted about second interviews getting cancelled earlier in the thread, and it seemed like there were multiple people this happened to. I looked it up and LSUC and this is what they have:

A firm that communicates its intention to interview a student must subsequently do so, unless the student has advised the firm that the student does not want to participate in the interview.

So not only is this rude its actually against the rules. Just a thought for any of you who personally had this happen - it might be worth discussing with your career office. 

Name names. I've heard from multiple sources at different firms that firms that we portrayed poorly online, whether it be on here or student run newspapers, actively take steps to change their processes as to not bismirch their names. 

 

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Just now, GoldmanSachs said:

I just wanted to say thank you to everyone, I really appreciate everyones help. 

This. I've been mostly quiet on here but I've followed this thread and the advice on this forum for years and it's been truly invaluable. 

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29 minutes ago, magpie said:

So I posted about second interviews getting cancelled earlier in the thread, and it seemed like there were multiple people this happened to. I looked it up on LSUC and this is what they have:

A firm that communicates its intention to interview a student must subsequently do so, unless the student has advised the firm that the student does not want to participate in the interview.

So not only is this rude its actually against the rules. Just a thought for any of you who personally had this happen - it might be worth discussing with your career office. 

Reading that rule in it's full context, though, it appears that this only applies to first interviews.  This is obvious when you look at the commentary to question 4:  

Quote

 In scheduling their interviews, students are to allow for interview lengths of at least 90 minutes. Students who are interviewing in person should also allow for travel times between premises when scheduling their interviews.

That isn't generally the practice for 2nd interviews.  

The communicated an intention to interview you, they did interview you on the Monday, the satisfied their obligation.  I would feel free to mention it to the career office, it's feedback that the firm in question should hear - at the very least it's kinda jerky behaviour.  I would not go around suggesting that the law firm broke any rules.   It's not obvious that they have, and it's a small industry.  

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Please don’t start naming names here. If you are seriously concerned that a firm broke the rules, report it to the career office and the Law Society. I imagine, given sufficient evidence, your report will make an impact. 

Here, everyone is anonymous and no one knows if you’re just making things up or exaggerating (I’m not suggesting any of this is the case; I’m just talking generally). 

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5 hours ago, switchdog said:

What are the other ways to Bay Street for next summer? I only know of a few Bay Street firms that recruit from outside of the OCI process. How many firms (roughly) are now left?

I was not speaking of 2L opportunities. Next summer is problematic. Some (admittedly typically few) will participate in the articling recruit. That is the next material opportunity. Then there is another reasonable opportunity as a 2 or 3 year associate and thereafter as specific needs arise.

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I feel like I want to type out my experience here for closure/posterity and anyone else going through the process in future years. I found the process confounding and frustrating. I had one firm cancel a second interview with me after they asked me to reschedule it an hour before it was supposed to happen My takeaway from this is if you are meeting with a managing partner and other heavy hitters on the third day and you have had two other good days of interviews you had better kill it. I felt like I totally hit it off with the managing partner and did a good job with the head of recruitment but was just a little flat with one really important partner on that third day. I was told I was extremely close to the cut and that the difference probably came down to having less insight into the process from being from out of province (this feels like pablum but I suppose I might as well take it). That said, HUGE thank you to everyone here though because I would have been clueless without all of you. My mistake as I understand it was that if a firm is telling you explicitly that they are very interested in you and giving all the right signals and telling you you are doing great it should not be taken at face value. The other thing that I would do differently is I would twist both my answers to questions and my questions in order to address what may have been holes in my qualifcations even if the interviewer doesn't ask about them. 

All of this said, I'm trying to see this as a blessing in disguise because I think I may have been aiming at Bay Street for the wrong reasons and it is very possible I would have hated my life if I had been successful. 

So thanks again to everyone here (especially you power users) and if any of you Ontario students are generous enough to loop an out-of-province person in on some of those non-oci summer opportunities (the person at the firm who let me down easy told me these exist) I would be eternally greatful and do my best to repay the favour. 

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43 minutes ago, SoundsAlright said:

My mistake as I understand it was that if a firm is telling you explicitly that they are very interested in you and giving all the right signals and telling you you are doing great it should not be taken at face value. 

Couldn't agree more. Doesn't mean those saying it aren't sincere but may not be their call. Have to take every comment with several grains of salt. 

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Anyone ever have a firm tell you on Wednesday that you are their top choice and to expect a call? 

I had had this happen... except the call during the expected call period was to reject me. This process has left me feeling pretty defeated.

I’m worried that I won’t be able to secure a paying 2L summer job, and I am worried that I will fall behind my classmates for the articling recruit because I did not get a position.

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26 minutes ago, bananasamana said:

Anyone ever have a firm tell you on Wednesday that you are their top choice and to expect a call? 

I had had this happen... except the call during the expected call period was to reject me. This process has left me feeling pretty defeated.

I’m worried that I won’t be able to secure a paying 2L summer job, and I am worried that I will fall behind my classmates for the articling recruit because I did not get a position.

There are LOTS of other paying 2L summer jobs. Plenty of your classmates did not get a position yesterday, some by choice, some not by choice. I had no problem getting one. I promise you, you will be fine. You were obviously very close and must be an accomplished candidate to have got that far.

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12 minutes ago, providence said:

There are LOTS of other paying 2L summer jobs. Plenty of your classmates did not get a position yesterday, some by choice, some not by choice. I had no problem getting one. I promise you, you will be fine. You were obviously very close and must be an accomplished candidate to have got that far.

Yeah that’s what’s I’m telling myself. I got as close as someone could to getting the job without actually getting it. 

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12 minutes ago, bananasamana said:

Yeah that’s what’s I’m telling myself. I got as close as someone could to getting the job without actually getting it. 

Keep reminding yourself. Stay positive...there is a reason for the succession of posts assuring those who didn't achieve desired results in the 2L recruit that better days are ahead. It's because they are. 

Edited by Constant
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Exactly. It's tough to be rejected but I think what some students forget when going into the OCI process is the numbers who are successful at getting one of these positions. U of T is at the top at ~50%. Yes, only half of its students. The next schools are somewhere around 1/3 and the rest even lower than that. Of course, going into OCIs you want to be confident that you'll be one of those who are included in those numbers but the odds are against you.

Although you may not end up at an OCI-type employer, most of those who do not will, indeed, find good employment. For your 2L summer, it may require some legwork on your part but there are jobs out there. I don't know anyone who didn't have a law-related paying job in their 2L summer.

Lastly, you may eventually realize that this is a blessing. The focus on these jobs, to the exclusion of others, is a shame.

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49 minutes ago, erinl2 said:

Lastly, you may eventually realize that this is a blessing. The focus on these jobs, to the exclusion of others, is a shame.

Signal boost

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The above few posts are right - OCIs are not the end of the world, not even close. I feel like I end up retelling this every year, but people seem to take comfort in stories, so... when I was in law school, I totally bombed OCIs. Got a lot of them, most of them felt pretty good, but didn't get any in-firms. It was devastating, and the next few months were hell. I ended up getting an awesome 2L summer job in February or March of 2L (which paid close to OCI employer rates), then was able to transition to my top choice firm through the articling recruit (a downtown firm that doesn't hire summer students). It's far from over if you didn't get an OCI job.

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