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bluejays17

2018 2L Recruitment

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A bunch of firms have sent out ITCs today - Blakes, Osler, McMillan to name a few (for Queen's at least) 

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Yep. Blakes PFO came through. Nothing from Osler or McMillan though. 

Edited by whoknows

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55 minutes ago, Rearden said:

A number of firms will send "intend to OCI" emails but not PFOs, which can be even worse (because if you haven't received an email from a firm and others you know have, you might be left wondering).

Having gone through this process recently, I'd like to see both "intend to OCI" and PFO emails prohibited. In my opinion, they make the first few weeks of law school unnecessarily stressful and breed jealousy. It would be better, I think, to release all OCI invitations at one time.

Incidentally, there is generally no need to reply to "intend to OCI" emails.

Oh good lord.  What is this, Valentines day in Kindergarden? 

If anyone's jealous because someone else got an ITO's and they didn't, they need to grow up. And how does it eliminate jealousy, at most for those immature enough to be jealous of their peers, it just defers it for a few weeks. Ditto, stress?  First I'm not sure how eliminating ITOs or PFOs reduces stress, if its uncertainty that is the cause of stress, dragging that uncertainty out only makes it worse, not better.  Second, if you're planning to work in biglaw (or, heck, law generally) better start learning to deal with stress.  

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28 minutes ago, maximumbob said:

Oh good lord.  What is this, Valentines day in Kindergarden? 

If anyone's jealous because someone else got an ITO's and they didn't, they need to grow up. And how does it eliminate jealousy, at most for those immature enough to be jealous of their peers, it just defers it for a few weeks. Ditto, stress?  First I'm not sure how eliminating ITOs or PFOs reduces stress, if its uncertainty that is the cause of stress, dragging that uncertainty out only makes it worse, not better.  Second, if you're planning to work in biglaw (or, heck, law generally) better start learning to deal with stress.  

Lol, bob, they make you either bring cards for everyone or not bring them at all in a lot of kindergartens now.

I agree though, it's a competitive process and some people are going to be jealous no matter what If they don't succeed at something where others do.

I think the sooner people know their status, the better.

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7 minutes ago, maximumbob said:

Oh good lord.  What is this, Valentines day in Kindergarden? 

If anyone's jealous because someone else got an ITO's and they didn't, they need to grow up. And how does it eliminate jealousy, at most for those immature enough to be jealous of their peers, it just defers it for a few weeks. Ditto, stress?  First I'm not sure how eliminating ITOs or PFOs reduces stress, if its uncertainty that is the cause of stress, dragging that uncertainty out only makes it worse, not better.  Second, if you're planning to work in biglaw (or, heck, law generally) better start learning to deal with stress.  

Points taken.  I guess I just don't see the benefit of ITOs/PFOs; I didn't think any less/more highly of a firm because they sent me an ITO/PFO before the official list came out.  It also seems much simpler -- from a logistical standpoint at least -- to send out all OCI invitations and rejections at one time.

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11 minutes ago, providence said:

Lol, bob, they make you either bring cards for everyone or not bring them at all in a lot of kindergartens now.

I know, for the same reasons.  I'm willing to assuage the feelings of 5 year-olds.  25 year olds, not so much. 

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9 minutes ago, Rearden said:

Points taken.  I guess I just don't see the benefit of ITOs/PFOs; I didn't think any less/more highly of a firm because they sent me an ITO/PFO before the official list came out.  It also seems much simpler -- from a logistical standpoint at least -- to send out all OCI invitations and rejections at one time.

I suspect it serves a couple of purposes.  First, some students may decide that they don;t want to do OCI's with a particular firm - maybe they've changed their mind, maybe they've got a ton of OCIs and are winnowing the crowd, whatever.  If they tell you they're not interested, than you can schedule someone else instead (that is the rationale for ITCs, ahead of call day, and while probably less significant for OCIs, probably has some benefits).  Second, there is something about making people feel loved - most students know shit about lawfirms, but giving them a nice letter or email might have some marginal brand identification.  For PFOs, I think it's really a courtesy - they're not going to call you, and don't want to keep you hanging.  If nothing else it means you don't waste your time bothering their students or learning about the firm.  

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8 hours ago, maximumbob said:

First, some students may decide that they don;t want to do OCI's with a particular firm - maybe they've changed their mind, maybe they've got a ton of OCIs and are winnowing the crowd, whatever.  If they tell you they're not interested, than you can schedule someone else instead (that is the rationale for ITCs, ahead of call day, and while probably less significant for OCIs, probably has some benefits).

I agree that ITCs/PFOs serve a purpose at the call day/in-firm stage, but I don't think they're nearly as useful at the OCI stage.

At the call day/in-firm stage, the incentive for firms to send ITCs and for students to respond to them is (correct me if I'm wrong) ultimately to make call day and scheduling in-firm week less of a clusterfuck.

But the process is different at the OCI stage (at least it is at Western).  First, many firms don't send ITOs/PFOs prior to the date and time at which the students receive their list of OCI "offers", so students don't have any way of knowing the exact number of OCIs they're going to get before that date (and probably shouldn't be making decisions prior to getting the full picture).  Second, the CPDO is responsible for creating firms' and students' OCI schedules (once the deadline for accepting/declining OCIs has passed).  Third, there are waitlists for OCIs -- meaning, I'd argue, that it's not as important for firms to know which students are going to accept/decline their OCI offers in advance of the OCI offer day.  (Granted, there might be waitlists for in-firms too -- I just don't remember ever hearing about any.)  Fourth, rightly or wrongly, students at Western are advised not to respond to ITOs; if students don't respond to ITOs, or only some students do, the benefit to firms is diminished.

8 hours ago, maximumbob said:

Second, there is something about making people feel loved - most students know shit about lawfirms, but giving them a nice letter or email might have some marginal brand identification.  For PFOs, I think it's really a courtesy - they're not going to call you, and don't want to keep you hanging.  If nothing else it means you don't waste your time bothering their students or learning about the firm.

I can buy your "marginal brand identification" point, but if a student is swayed -- even to a marginal extent -- by a nicely worded ITO email, they probably aren't taking their career seriously enough.

I can also understand the courtesy justification for PFOs, but, personally, when it comes to OCIs (not call day/in-firms) I'd rather receive the rejections all at once.  And there was plenty of time to learn what little I needed to know about firms for OCI purposes between the date on which the list of OCI offers was released and the date of OCIs.

I apologize for derailing the thread, folks.

Edited by Rearden

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I go to a non-Ontario school and applied to Toronto 2L OCI firms. I got an email from one firm saying that, if I was selected, they would be in contact on call day to set up a November interview. OCIs are in September so I'm confused by this email - any insight? 

Edited by tuquoque

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10 hours ago, tuquoque said:

I go to a non-Ontario school and applied to Toronto 2L OCI firms. I got an email from one firm saying that, if I was selected, they would be in contact on call day to set up a November interview. OCIs are in September so I'm confused by this email - any insight? 

Sounds like that firm isn't doing OCI's at your particular school?

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10 hours ago, tuquoque said:

I go to a non-Ontario school and applied to Toronto 2L OCI firms. I got an email from one firm saying that, if I was selected, they would be in contact on call day to set up a November interview. OCIs are in September so I'm confused by this email - any insight? 

I'm assuming this firm doesn't do ocis for your school so you would only hear back at the in-firm stage? 

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8 hours ago, healthlaw said:

I'm assuming this firm doesn't do ocis for your school so you would only hear back at the in-firm stage? 

I checked the emails from my CDO and they are supposedly doing OCIs. 

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