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mbenn

Western or Queens?? (placement rates)

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Hi, I know this thread has been created before and I have looked through all of that already. I am looking for any opinions on which school has better placement rates with respect to jobs and articling positions. My biggest deciding factor is to go to whichever school will help me get the best job. 

I am interested in Business Law but also want to be able to practice law in NY - does either school have a tie to American legal studies? Or classes that help you to prepare for the NY State Bar? Or do most graduates stay in Ontario (Bay St)?

Any insights are much appreciated! Thanks!

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Why would Canadian schools have classes that help you to prepare for the NY State Bar? That would be Barbri.

Both are good schools. Both place well. All Canadian common law schools allow you to write the NY bar.
 

 

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Now that I'm a law student I just want to apologize to all members of ls.ca for starting a Queen's vs. Western thread around this time last year.

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43 minutes ago, mbenn said:

Hi, I know this thread has been created before and I have looked through all of that already. I am looking for any opinions on which school has better placement rates with respect to jobs and articling positions. My biggest deciding factor is to go to whichever school will help me get the best job. 

I am interested in Business Law but also want to be able to practice law in NY - does either school have a tie to American legal studies? Or classes that help you to prepare for the NY State Bar? Or do most graduates stay in Ontario (Bay St)?

Any insights are much appreciated! Thanks!

Caveat: law school (Queen's!) years ago, called in NY but never any real interest in working there.

Windsor has a well-known joint degree program; some Canadian law schools have had in the past exchange programs with specific US law schools which allowed one to graduate with both US and Canadian law degrees in less time and with less money than would otherwise be the case, but no idea what the current status is.

As was noted, New York (and a few other states) generally recognize Canadian law degrees at par for purposes of writing the bar exam and getting admitted. But I would expect you're going to be at a serious disadvantage relative to American law school grads in terms of getting a job at a NY firm - some firms used to recruit at U of T, Osgoode and I think Queens and Western - but no idea what the situation is now. And being called in NY only gets you so far, you're not a graduate of an ABA-approved law school, and states with reciprocity agreements generally only apply that to graduates of such schools. If you want to end up in NY with a Canadian law degree, research it now, realize you'll need great marks, may not get anything, and if the US government changes visa and work eligibility, you may not be able to go there anyway...

13 minutes ago, CoffeeandLaw said:

Now that I'm a law student I just want to apologize to all members of ls.ca for starting a Queen's vs. Western thread around this time last year.

But where did you end up going?

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3 minutes ago, epeeist said:

But where did you end up going?

Queens! I have some  insight on Queens vs. Western now but unfortunately don't know much about how they place in NY because I have no interest in practicing there. 

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Thanks for the insights on the states, I definitely will look into it more.

Would you guys say that the placement rates at both schools are similar? Does one have an advantage anywhere over the other? Like Bay St, national reach etc?? 

 

@CoffeeandLaw Why did you choose Queens? 

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Here's my copy and pasted list from someone who DMd me about this topic: 

1. Kingston is prettier and has more culture than London in my opinion. The historic buildings are gorgeous, and Kingston has great restaurants. Also, being able to walk to groceries/school/friends was way more appealing than taking the bus everywhere. But Kingston also has a bus system if I ever wanted it.

2. Western's business focus kind of turned me off for 2 reasons 1. I don't know if I want to do business law, but more importantly is 2. everyone I talked to at Western picked it because of the business focus, and I didn't want to be surrounded by corporate focused people all of the time .

3. Social life: Queens has pub nights once a week, whereas Western's are twice a month. Also, Queens has an orientation week separate from classes. This might seem like a silly criteria, but I think it says something about each school.

4. Queen's gives all first years who want one a free upper year tutor. This was amazing as a 1L.

5. Kingston is in between Toronto and Ottawa so if I decide to do anything Ottawa/Government related, there is better access from Kingston. For instance, Queen's has internships for credit at the DOJ.

6. IMO Queens has a slightly better reputation than Western. I know people love to debate this, and it's probably not important, but that's the impression I got after asking a lot of people in the industry.

Both law schools are so incredibly similar that it was a very very tough decision. Ultimately it came down to where I could see myself being happier, and that was Kingston/Queens.

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1 hour ago, mbenn said:

Hi, I know this thread has been created before and I have looked through all of that already. I am looking for any opinions on which school has better placement rates with respect to jobs and articling positions. My biggest deciding factor is to go to whichever school will help me get the best job. 

The real question should be: where do you think you'll be the best student? Grades are determinative at least for getting an interview (and so we can infer, a job), so where do you think you'll get the A-range grades you need to have as many options as possible - on Bay Street and beyond - Queen's, or Western? Graded or pass/fail first semester exams, academic support, class formats all play into that. As well as knowing who you are as a student. 

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Just finished first year at Western and did my undergrad at Queen's, and had the same choice to make. I chose Western because of the smaller class size, wanted a change of scenery from Kingston (loved it, but didn't want to spend another three years there), and because I knew I wanted to do biz law. I did speak with a recruiter at a seven sister before I made this decision, and they said they are viewed equally in terms of reputation.. neither really has an edge. I also liked how London is closer to Toronto - getting there in under two hours made a big difference then the close to three for Kingston. I think Queen's might have a slight edge in terms of marks as I've heard something about midterms only counting if they help you? (someone at Queen's can actually speak to this) - however, the class average I presume is curved to a Bish (Western's is a B) so at the end of the day not sure how much it actually helps you get "better marks". Not sure how placement rates are as I'm just starting the 2L recruit, but I would second the person above me, if you want to do NY go where you think you'll get better marks. Again, for Bay street, seems like they are neck in neck. Western's smaller class size might give you a very slight edge because I think they hire a similar number of students from both... but then again, I would counter this by saying that once you beat the marks threshold, it's just the candidates and how they interview. There is no formal recruit for NY firms from Western that I know of but the career office sends around some information and if your interested I'm sure they can help you out. PM me if you have any specific questions about Western.

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