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mzade

Do lawyers really make that much money?

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Come on people. This board is about encouraging intellectual and mature conversations and discussions. Personal insults and attacks have no place here 

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:rolling:

 

Trigger, look.

 

Most people would agree that the "prison rape" line was over the line. The mods may chide me, and they wouldn't be wrong. But if any one person here disagrees that you:

a., spout a ton of political invective which, whether one agrees with it or not, lacks any sort of logic or substance beyond "this is what conservative people believe";

and

b., have yet to show a single spark of original thought or ability to understand the thoughts of others;

and,

c., of all the people we've seen here over the past decade, present as having, at best, a fifth-percentile intellect;

 

I will literally eat my literal hat. Hey, you, you who disagree with me. Go pick nineteen random other people who've made 200+ posts. Tell me which one you think Trigger could plausibly be smarter than. I'll wait. As usual, I'm being an asshole. As usual, I'm not wrong.

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Wait why are you being mean to Darwin? 

 

I took post #32 as him being mean to me. He said he was joking, I apologized. We're good now, I hope. <3

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Listen, this is going to keep happening, and if people actually think some hatemongering (I'm being an asshole; I'm not wrong) moron (asshole; not wrong) is more valuable to this place than me, I'm happy to step away. I feel like I've made some contributions in terms of helping access applicants, but maybe enough is enough. Take care, guys.

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​Returning to the discussion at hand, I want to point out that a lot of people can make 100K+ salaries given enough time in a job in the public sector. Those jobs are relatively un-strenuous and yet come with great hours, benefits, and a sense of moral superiority. This is especially true if the job is unionized (I'm not a particularly big fan of public sector unions but that's beside the point). So you don't have to necessarily get a law degree if you want to make a nice living, and the really highly paid lawyers have to work pretty hard (at some point in their careers) to get there. And I'm pretty sure business people can make even more than lawyers. So it's really not a necessity or even the best path to make the kind of money you (the OP) seem to be asking about unless you enjoy the law.

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Listen, this is going to keep happening, and if people actually think some hatemongering (I'm being an asshole; I'm not wrong) moron (asshole; not wrong) is more valuable to this place than me, I'm happy to step away. I feel like I've made some contributions in terms of helping access applicants, but maybe enough is enough. Take care, guys.

 

No, no. You're appreciated. Seriously

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Listen, this is going to keep happening, and if people actually think some hatemongering (I'm being an asshole; I'm not wrong) moron (asshole; not wrong) is more valuable to this place than me, I'm happy to step away. I feel like I've made some contributions in terms of helping access applicants, but maybe enough is enough. Take care, guys.

 

Noooooooooooooooooooooo...

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Listen, this is going to keep happening, and if people actually think some hatemongering (I'm being an asshole; I'm not wrong) moron (asshole; not wrong) is more valuable to this place than me, I'm happy to step away. I feel like I've made some contributions in terms of helping access applicants, but maybe enough is enough. Take care, guys.

Whoah, whoah. I think we can peacefully co-exist. I don't see why this needs to be a popularity contest. As you have probably learned by now, that factor plays very little role in my life choices.

 

We can disagree and that's cool. I genuinely don't even mind the jail rape comment haha.

Edited by Trigger
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Okay, some comments in this thread have gone way over the line and I've hid them. I get that some of the discussion is contentious but can we please remember not to be jerks to each other? I'd hate to either have to lock this thread or start calling out specific posters about how an exchange if ideas is what's appropriate and not personally attacking each other.

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Well then.. that escalated quickly. Please provide a popcorn warning next time you guys (Trigger, Diplock, YB) decide to throw down.

Edited by HanShotFirst
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Thanks, Ryn, for being reasonable and kind in the face of my raging lunacy. You're a class act.

What this thread probably needed from the get-go was a Hegdis-style compendium of past conversations on this topic, because boy have they existed, though they've rarely if ever gotten this rancorous. I am not starting a fight I am not starting a fight I am not starting a fight I am not starting a fight, but listen: I grew up so poor that a part of me still considers anyone who has a roof over their head, food in their stomachs, food in their dependents' stomachs, and a reasonable expectation that all of this will continue to be the case tomorrow, to be "rich". (SO YOU'RE A CRAZY COMMIE WHO THINKS WE SHOULD TAX EVERYONE WHO MAKES MORE THAN $11,000 BACK TO THE STONE AGE? FUCK YOU! No. No. No no no.) I have since had jobs which, in pure terms of dollars and cents, make the hourly rate at which Bay Street articling students are paid seem paltry (SO NOW YOU'RE BRAGGING ABOUT HOW YOU'RE BETTER THAN ME? YOU'RE NOT EVEN A LAWYER! FUCK YOU! No no no no no.) (Seriously, though, sometime, go calculate how much Uriel made to article, relative to how many hours he worked.)

I sure hope we can agree that whether lawyers make a lot of money depends on what you think a lot of money is. That's where this fight always goes. And I'm sorry this particular iteration got this ugly. But, OP, there's plenty of information---on this board and elsewhere---about what kind of hours lawyers work, and how they're compensated. Whether it's a lot of money is up to you.

Now I'll bow out of this thread, and leave other people to say non-flamey things. :)

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BlockedQueecois nailed it.

also, while 130k puts a person in the top 2-3%, it is disingenuous to look at that number alone. For instance, I'd rather be a top 8% income earner as a teacher (94 thousand a year in Ontario) working 8 and half months a year, plus receiving 15 sick days and a pension, than a lawyer making 100k a year working double the hours. That is not to say that 100k is bad at all, but there is usually more to the story than simply the gross number.

 

Except you're comparing apples and monkeys.

 

Sure, there are teachers making $94k in Ontario. But that's not the average, that's what they make at the top of the pay grid. If you're going to compare like with like, that you need to be comparing the teacher making $94k with the Partnor at Davies making $900k. You might still prefer teaching, but it's not really that clear cut.

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​Returning to the discussion at hand, I want to point out that a lot of people can make 100K+ salaries given enough time in a job in the public sector. Those jobs are relatively un-strenuous and yet come with great hours, benefits, and a sense of moral superiority. This is especially true if the job is unionized (I'm not a particularly big fan of public sector unions but that's beside the point). So you don't have to necessarily get a law degree if you want to make a nice living, and the really highly paid lawyers have to work pretty hard (at some point in their careers) to get there. And I'm pretty sure business people can make even more than lawyers. So it's really not a necessity or even the best path to make the kind of money you (the OP) seem to be asking about unless you enjoy the law.

I'm not sure that's right. If you look at the Ontario sunshine list (e.g. People in the public sector making more than $100k) you notice a couple of things about the people on it. First, a lot of them are skilled professionals - engineers at OPG, university professors, crowns, judges. Second, a lot of the people are on the list because they work a lot of overtime or shift work - cops, power workers, etc. Third, many of theh make more than $100k, but not much. Fourth, that often represents their peak earnings (e.g., they're making $100k+ after 20 or 30 years of working).

 

So you're right that people can make good money in the public sector, but if you're going to do it you're either going to have to go down a similar career path to lawyers, work hard for you money, or work for a long time to get there.

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(SO YOU'RE A CRAZY COMMIE WHO THINKS WE SHOULD TAX EVERYONE WHO MAKES MORE THAN $11,000 BACK TO THE STONE AGE? FUCK YOU!

But, but, you are, aren't you? :)

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But, but, you are, aren't you? :)

Well, obviously, but that was beside the point of this particular post. :) Damn elites who make $11,001, oppressing me with their riches. And don't get me started on the ones who make $11,002.

Edited by Yogurt Baron
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I'm not sure that's right. If you look at the Ontario sunshine list (e.g. People in the public sector making more than $100k) you notice a couple of things about the people on it. First, a lot of them are skilled professionals - engineers at OPG, university professors, crowns, judges. Second, a lot of the people are on the list because they work a lot of overtime or shift work - cops, power workers, etc. Third, many of theh make more than $100k, but not much. Fourth, that often represents their peak earnings (e.g., they're making $100k+ after 20 or 30 years of working).

 

So you're right that people can make good money in the public sector, but if you're going to do it you're either going to have to go down a similar career path to lawyers, work hard for you money, or work for a long time to get there.

 

 

That's true - I was working for people with pretty decent qualifications. I think you'd need a CPA, MBA, PMP, HR designation, some sort of technical skill (computer programming etc.), or just a lot of time or a lot of luck to hit the sunshine list. But if you're a decent worker with a good head on your shoulders, your organization would help with training as well to keep you around. But I just threw it out as an alternative for people who want to make a decent living in non-law-related ways. (I almost wrote non-legal ways, and I guess that's also true. But that's out of my area of experience). 

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you're too stupid to be here. And I don't mean "LS". I mean "the universe".

 

Just another example of how the board's rules apply to some but not others.

 

I've yet to attend law school, that's true, but people who can read seem to find my posts entertaining, and I have a personality, which are two things no one could accuse you of.

 

lol.

 

Come on people. This board is about encouraging intellectual and mature conversations and discussions. Personal insults and attacks have no place here 

 

[emphasis added]

 

Unless you're a member of an elite group of posters for whom the "rules" don't apply.

 

Listen, this is going to keep happening, and if people actually think some hatemongering (I'm being an asshole; I'm not wrong) moron (asshole; not wrong) is more valuable to this place than me, I'm happy to step away. I feel like I've made some contributions in terms of helping access applicants, but maybe enough is enough. Take care, guys.

 

Bye.

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Just another example of how the board's rules apply to some but not others.

 

 

lol.

 

 

[emphasis added]

 

Unless you're a member of an elite group of posters for whom the "rules" don't apply.

 

 

Bye.

 

All right. Being polite, here, to the best of my limited abilities in that particular field.

 

I've been reprimanded by a moderator (who didn't name names, but who was fairly clear about who he meant) in public and by private message. I've apologized to the moderator both publicly and privately, to Trigger both publicly and privately, and to the board at large publicly, in both this thread and another. I'm not sure if you missed the posts to that effect, or what. So I'm not sure what other recourse you'd like. I'm certainly not above any rules---if anything, I suspect the mods are, and should be, less patient with me than with the rest of you. But I'll apologize to you, personally, HoFChaos, if my unkindness on this or any other thread has ever been perturbing to you in any way. I know some people don't like conflict and aggression, and that the community's not well served by it. Take care.

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For whatever it's worth, in another thread I said that Trigger probably didn't have the requisite vocabulary to participate in a discussion. I genuinely meant that to reference a "vocabulary of ideas" and not to suggest he is somehow inarticulate - which I'd agree would be a pointless personal attack. Ideas are tricky. Imagine discussing justice and what it should look like with no access to the concept of "due process." That is what I meant, and I figured I'd clarify, in the interest of ratcheting things down a bit.

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