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grapefruit18

programs with a focus on anti-oppressive politics

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Okay, I am no longer reading this thread. Despite the tons of "(such-and-such right-wing nut responded to your post)" notifications, I am no longer reading this thread (and won't be reading any responses from here on out). I only wound up back here because I cyberstalk the living fuck out of everything Diplock posts <3 and because he posted here.

So, real quick. For fuck's fucking sake, this isn't just a fun conversation about different ideas. This is literally life-and-death shit. Just as one example, do you know what the trans suicide rate is? Hundreds of trans kids kill themselves because of the abuse they receive from troglodytes like Jordan Peterson, and if it were up to me, Peterson and everyone who thinks like it does would be serving a life sentence in prison as an accessory to hundreds of murders. (My use of "it" is not accidental. The moment the first of many vulnerable students implicitly said to Jordan Peterson, "I was born in a male body but I am female, and you are my teacher and I trust you, and if you do not acknowledge that I am female, it will be devastating to me psychologically," and Peterson implicitly responded, "Nyah nyah, I have freedom of speech and I can call you whatever I want whether it kills you or not! FREEDOM OF SPEECH! YOU'RE A BOY! FREEDOM OF SPEECH!", Jordan Peterson voluntarily surrendered the right to be considered a human being.) Now, society is coming very gradually to the realization that "people" like Peterson and its followers are subhuman monsters, and that there's absolutely no justification for (say) refusing to call a trans person by their preferred pronouns other than attempting to incite their suicides. I know a lot of us - even a lot of us on the left - aren't there yet, but I remember thirty years ago, it wasn't considered "racist" to say, "I don't like (n-word)s and I wouldn't want them marrying my daughter, but I'll leave them alone and they can leave me alone." Forty years ago, that would've been not just "not considered racist", but "actively considered non-racist". Trust me: we are moving in the same direction with trans people, and we will get there. And, for the record, it is not a direction of "censorship". It is a direction of, "If you say things designed to hurt innocent people who are harming no one but who offend you simply by being different from you, people will correctly identify you as an asshole." Is anyone censoring the n-word right now? Go into a crowd of people and bellow it ten times. No one will arrest you. No one will kill you. Everyone will think you are an asshole, and they will be right, and we are going to get to the point where virtually everyone agrees that calling a trans man "she" is the same damn thing, for the same damn reason.

 

Now, eventually, we'll reach the point that we reached with slaveowners---the history books will write, accurately, about what a travesty it was that we let Peterson and other such creatures get away with their shit. But right now? Right now, even though no rational, intelligent person could deny that there's at least a tangential link between what Peterson does and the lives that are lost because of what Peterson does (and if you mean well but are sincerely not aware of what's going on out there, I can introduce you to the survivors of several trans kids who killed themselves because of dysphoria prompted by authority figures refusing to accept their genders), literally all the blowback you get is a handful of people on the internet calling you mean names, while you continue to incite the suicides and murders of people who've done nothing wrong but for to be born in the wrong bodies. Oh, and once in a while, when one of you is stupid enough to stop pretending it's about "free speech" and admit that you're an actual Nazi and actually want to kill people who are different from you, once in a while you get...punched in the face, like that Richard guy who is literally a Nazi and would literally like to murder millions of innocent people and who suffered...what, for this? Jail time? Execution? Any attempt to actually silence him? Nope. A punch in the face, because we live in a society where one stupid white bigot with an awful haircut has a right to "free speech" that outweighs the rights of millions of people not to be murdered.

Your "free speech" is literally making people die, Trigger. Trans people, people with disabilities, women, minorities. Probably me, fairly soon, which is why I'm being this blunt. I can't access the medical services I need because of people like you with your bullshit bootstrap narratives and your privilege crowding out people with disabilities, and if I'm alive this time next month, I will be very, very surprised. Every time you deny the existence of privilege, the existence of the patriarchy, the existence of white supremacy, the existence of fucking transgender human beings who fucking exist, you make this world a measurably worse place for the people you are oppressing by living those values. Your brand of "conservatism" is wantonly destroying other human beings' lives. And literally the only consequence you are presently suffering is that once in a while, a guy like me says, from his literal fucking deathbed, "Hey, buddy, it would be nice if you stopped destroying wantonly other human beings' lives." That's appalling enough---that you get to do your thing and that all you get is Jiminy Cricket chiding you to try to be nicer, please, while meanwhile people who don't look like you are literally dying in the fucking gutter because of people who act like you---without you trying to play the victim about, oh, gosh, sometimes someone is mean to me about my crusade to incite a trans suicide epidemic! Literally the only thing that is allowing me to keep my shit together at this moment is my knowledge (because it is knowledge) of the fact (because it is a fact) that society always progresses, that progress always wins, and that in a hundred and fifty years, people like you who are presently working overtime to harm vulnerable people will be viewed in the way that we, right now, view the people who did the same thing a hundred and fifty years ago. But that does a lot of good for the refugee who desperately needs a lawyer five years from now, and you're a lawyer and in a position to help, but of course you don't, and I would help, except I can't, because what's left of my body is rotting in a pauper's grave.

People who run the world right now and are whining about how a comparative handful of people wish you weren't running the world: have fun while you can. I think you've got another generation or two. Make the most of it. Grapefruit: for fuck's sake just keep your head up and try not to get literally killed out there by these goddamned jackals.

Take care, everybody.

Edited by Yogurt Baron
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If you've read many or all of the posts in this thread, I offer both my congratulations and condolences. I think we've manage to get posters from all parts of the political spectrum, so our OP will at least be prepared for what he has coming: far right, centre right, everywhere (hi Providence), centre left, far left. Frankly, we've fed this thread so much I'm a little afraid it will develop sentience and kill us all.

 

For what it's worth, these are all touchy subjects and I respect the courage and patience of everyone who has shared their opinions and beliefs, admittedly in an anonymous forum, and who have tried to explain those beliefs to the rest of us reading. Now if you'll excuse me, I think I'm going to stop perusing this thread and get back to complaining about Trump. 

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YB,

 

Someone has already told me that when the revolution comes, I'll be lined up against the wall and shot (and, frankly, when the revolution I'll be begging to be shot). Personally, the odds are better that Donald Trump will convert to Islam and become a woman, but anything can happen.

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Personally, the odds are better that Donald Trump will convert to Islam and become a woman, but anything can happen.

 

You have to admit, a simple headscarf would be a real timesaver, when you consider how much combing and hairspray must go into his morning routine. Then the President could do what she really loves: misquote TV shows that she claims not to see and ensure that every progressive in the English speaking world subscribes to the failing nytimes.

Edited by realpseudonym

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Okay, I am no longer reading this thread. Despite the tons of "(such-and-such right-wing nut responded to your post)" notifications, I am no longer reading this thread (and won't be reading any responses from here on out). I only wound up back here because I cyberstalk the living fuck out of everything Diplock posts <3 and because he posted here.

 

So, real quick. For fuck's fucking sake, this isn't just a fun conversation about different ideas. This is literally life-and-death shit. Just as one example, do you know what the trans suicide rate is? Hundreds of trans kids kill themselves because of the abuse they receive from troglodytes like Jordan Peterson, and if it were up to me, Peterson and everyone who thinks like it does would be serving a life sentence in prison as an accessory to hundreds of murders. (My use of "it" is not accidental. The moment the first of many vulnerable students implicitly said to Jordan Peterson, "I was born in a male body but I am female, and you are my teacher and I trust you, and if you do not acknowledge that I am female, it will be devastating to me psychologically," and Peterson implicitly responded, "Nyah nyah, I have freedom of speech and I can call you whatever I want whether it kills you or not! FREEDOM OF SPEECH! YOU'RE A BOY! FREEDOM OF SPEECH!", Jordan Peterson voluntarily surrendered the right to be considered a human being.) Now, society is coming very gradually to the realization that "people" like Peterson and its followers are subhuman monsters, and that there's absolutely no justification for (say) refusing to call a trans person by their preferred pronouns other than attempting to incite their suicides. I know a lot of us - even a lot of us on the left - aren't there yet, but I remember thirty years ago, it wasn't considered "racist" to say, "I don't like (n-word)s and I wouldn't want them marrying my daughter, but I'll leave them alone and they can leave me alone." Forty years ago, that would've been not just "not considered racist", but "actively considered non-racist". Trust me: we are moving in the same direction with trans people, and we will get there. And, for the record, it is not a direction of "censorship". It is a direction of, "If you say things designed to hurt innocent people who are harming no one but who offend you simply by being different from you, people will correctly identify you as an asshole." Is anyone censoring the n-word right now? Go into a crowd of people and bellow it ten times. No one will arrest you. No one will kill you. Everyone will think you are an asshole, and they will be right, and we are going to get to the point where virtually everyone agrees that calling a trans man "she" is the same damn thing, for the same damn reason.

 

Now, eventually, we'll reach the point that we reached with slaveowners---the history books will write, accurately, about what a travesty it was that we let Peterson and other such creatures get away with their shit. But right now? Right now, even though no rational, intelligent person could deny that there's at least a tangential link between what Peterson does and the lives that are lost because of what Peterson does (and if you mean well but are sincerely not aware of what's going on out there, I can introduce you to the survivors of several trans kids who killed themselves because of dysphoria prompted by authority figures refusing to accept their genders), literally all the blowback you get is a handful of people on the internet calling you mean names, while you continue to incite the suicides and murders of people who've done nothing wrong but for to be born in the wrong bodies. Oh, and once in a while, when one of you is stupid enough to stop pretending it's about "free speech" and admit that you're an actual Nazi and actually want to kill people who are different from you, once in a while you get...punched in the face, like that Richard guy who is literally a Nazi and would literally like to murder millions of innocent people and who suffered...what, for this? Jail time? Execution? Any attempt to actually silence him? Nope. A punch in the face, because we live in a society where one stupid white bigot with an awful haircut has a right to "free speech" that outweighs the rights of millions of people not to be murdered.

 

Your "free speech" is literally making people die, Trigger. Trans people, people with disabilities, women, minorities. Probably me, fairly soon, which is why I'm being this blunt. I can't access the medical services I need because of people like you with your bullshit bootstrap narratives and your privilege crowding out people with disabilities, and if I'm alive this time next month, I will be very, very surprised. Every time you deny the existence of privilege, the existence of the patriarchy, the existence of white supremacy, the existence of fucking transgender human beings who fucking exist, you make this world a measurably worse place for the people you are oppressing by living those values. Your brand of "conservatism" is wantonly destroying other human beings' lives. And literally the only consequence you are presently suffering is that once in a while, a guy like me says, from his literal fucking deathbed, "Hey, buddy, it would be nice if you stopped destroying wantonly other human beings' lives." That's appalling enough---that you get to do your thing and that all you get is Jiminy Cricket chiding you to try to be nicer, please, while meanwhile people who don't look like you are literally dying in the fucking gutter because of people who act like you---without you trying to play the victim about, oh, gosh, sometimes someone is mean to me about my crusade to incite a trans suicide epidemic! Literally the only thing that is allowing me to keep my shit together at this moment is my knowledge (because it is knowledge) of the fact (because it is a fact) that society always progresses, that progress always wins, and that in a hundred and fifty years, people like you who are presently working overtime to harm vulnerable people will be viewed in the way that we, right now, view the people who did the same thing a hundred and fifty years ago. But that does a lot of good for the refugee who desperately needs a lawyer five years from now, and you're a lawyer and in a position to help, but of course you don't, and I would help, except I can't, because what's left of my body is rotting in a pauper's grave.

 

People who run the world right now and are whining about how a comparative handful of people wish you weren't running the world: have fun while you can. I think you've got another generation or two. Make the most of it. Grapefruit: for fuck's sake just keep your head up and try not to get literally killed out there by these goddamned jackals.

 

Take care, everybody.

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-3356084/I-ve-gone-child-Husband-father-seven-52-leaves-wife-kids-live-transgender-SIX-YEAR-OLD-girl-named-Stefonknee.html

 

Tell me, why does a 53 year old man think he's a 6 year old girl? It's one thing to become a transgender but why does he have to change his age as well? Is age a social construct as well now? I don't personally have any issues with transgender people but it's because of cases like this that a lot of conservatives do.

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