Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
lawlskewl

Articling crisis / problems with entry in to the Canadian legal market [split]

Recommended Posts

 And a lot of people blame articling for their unemployment because after all you need to complete articles to become a lawyer. But I've never believed that people who can't find articles would be well-employed as associates if only they could be called. There's no logic to imagine that's true. People who can't find jobs to article also can't find work as associates. And the only difference between being unemployed in law but called to the bar and not is that you can theoretically set up shop as a sole. Do you want to do that?

 

 

I've heard this regurgitated to me probably at least 75% of the time during my networking, "mobility goes up so much once you've been called!" Countless lawyers have preached to me about how articling is the big hurdle and once you get called it is much easier to find work. To an extent I understand it, my understanding is a laywer has to babysit an articling student, articling students aren't directly billed to clients, overall there's more investment from the firm into an articling student vs an associate. At least that's what's been conveyed to me from the conversations I've had. An associate can be billed out, there presumably should be less training involved, less hand holding, etc. 

 

At this point in my articling search, SPs, smaller/medium firms are the only ones who even entertain the idea of hiring but they claim they don't have the resources to bring on an articling student, not like the big firms. I've seen a couple smaller firms hiring associates who are unwilling to hire an articling student. I pitch myself as a cheaper alternative and they are still unwilling. I semi understand it since it's more work for them but it sucks...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've heard this regurgitated to me probably at least 75% of the time during my networking, "mobility goes up so much once you've been called!" Countless lawyers have preached to me about how articling is the big hurdle and once you get called it is much easier to find work. To an extent I understand it, my understanding is a laywer has to babysit an articling student, articling students aren't directly billed to clients, overall there's more investment from the firm into an articling student vs an associate. At least that's what's been conveyed to me from the conversations I've had. An associate can be billed out, there presumably should be less training involved, less hand holding, etc. 

 

At this point in my articling search, SPs, smaller/medium firms are the only ones who even entertain the idea of hiring but they claim they don't have the resources to bring on an articling student, not like the big firms. I've seen a couple smaller firms hiring associates who are unwilling to hire an articling student. I pitch myself as a cheaper alternative and they are still unwilling. I semi understand it since it's more work for them but it sucks...

 

There's nothing at all wrong with listening to multiple perspectives, but I stand by my view that there's no evidence to suggest people who can't find articles would be employed as associates if only they could get called. I suppose once you are only listening to people who are working as lawyers they will perceive that they had greater opportunities once called. But at that point it's sample bias. I admit I can't prove my views as easily because the sample group I want to cite doesn't exist - lawyers who couldn't find articles but became employed as associates. In some sense the only group that ever existed to test this was the few years of the LPP. I think it's a mixed result, but I digress.

 

Basically, I would never encourage you to give up your search. And yes, there will be some postings from possible employers who want a fully called lawyer and who can't contemplate an articling student instead. There are also many posts from people who'll take a student but who can't commit to an associate. Either way, yes, if the immediate hurdle is getting called, then do what you need to to get called. I'll just repeat the same advice that I give routinely and which I consider absolutely critical. Focus on one or two areas of law that you genuinely want to practice and have an interest in. I know when you're desperate for anything it can seem counter-intuitive. But both for articling and ultimately for building a career - you'll never be an attractive candidate for areas of law in which you lack foundation and interest. Better to concentrate your time where you do have a chance.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There's nothing at all wrong with listening to multiple perspectives, but I stand by my view that there's no evidence to suggest people who can't find articles would be employed as associates if only they could get called. I suppose once you are only listening to people who are working as lawyers they will perceive that they had greater opportunities once called. But at that point it's sample bias. I admit I can't prove my views as easily because the sample group I want to cite doesn't exist - lawyers who couldn't find articles but became employed as associates.

I'm.. What, four days late? Great. Cool.

 

I'd like to add on to this that there is at least some evidence that receiving articles is not a guaranteed career as a lawyer or else hireback would be 100%... Of course there is some leeway here, some of those who aren't 'hired back' have in fact already lateralled to other firms, but that isn't everyone.

 

I would love to be able to provide hard numbers here but I can't because I'm not sure they exist. Maybe they should. I don't know.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm.. What, four days late? Great. Cool.

 

I'd like to add on to this that there is at least some evidence that receiving articles is not a guaranteed career as a lawyer or else hireback would be 100%... Of course there is some leeway here, some of those who aren't 'hired back' have in fact already lateralled to other firms, but that isn't everyone.

 

I would love to be able to provide hard numbers here but I can't because I'm not sure they exist. Maybe they should. I don't know.

I think the LSUC report on the LPP had some numbers on employment rates (and in what form associate/in-house/solo) among new calls who articled versus new calls in the LPP.  Not great information, and certainly not particularly accessible, but you'd think they might be able to clean it up and present it in a more accessible fashion.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My child will go to daycare when I start articling. I think it is obvious. If I do not have a job, i do not have money to pay for nanny or daycare. Everything will be arranged to provide best services possible to clients.

 

Whether from loans, a non-law job, or support from family or friends, you need to have enough money to spend on the expenses associated with looking for a job. If not, that's your first priority. If you don't have a car, and someone offers you a job interview at a place far away from public transit, you need to rent (or borrow) a car (I like Zipcar). If you have a car, that's a huge expense even if you almost never drive it. If you don't have a good interview outfit, you need to buy (or borrow, if a good fit) one. And if you have a job interview scheduled at an inconvenient time, you need to have childcare either paid for by you or free from a friend or family member.

 

Unfortunately, looking for a job - including attending interviews - requires money. You managed to get through law school and you and your child have a place to live and food to eat (I'm not trying to be unpleasant, I'm encouraged, you've managed a difficult 3 years). Even if you get offered a job, you're going to need to arrange for and pay for childcare before your first paycheck. You likewise need to make arrangements at the earlier, interview stage. Maximumbob linked to one service, I didn't see a price list but from a quick search another service has emergency nanny services at $16 per hour (4 hour minimum), I would hope that if you spoke to people you know you'd eventually find or get referred to someone who if needed for a job interview would be willing to child-mind for a few hours on relatively short notice for minimum wage (a university or college student perhaps who'd be happy for an excuse to skip class and be paid for it, not that I encourage skipping classes...).

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.



×
×
  • Create New...