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crimguy44

Toronto 2016 2L Recruitment

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I'm curious why some OCI applicants with similar grades (B+) from identical schools (particularly Western) have ended up with a dramatically different number of OCIs? Any insights? 

 

 

Also a B+ average can mean a lot of things. At Osgoode it could be 3 B+s and 5 Bs for instance. It could also be 5 As, 2 B+ and a C. The latter has much better grades and differ by almost a full grade point numerically, yet they both stand at a B+ according to the transcript.

 

While resume and cover letter are absolutely important factors that sway the number of OCIs someone gets, I think this is the correct answer. While people say "Western, B+ average" you've got to remember that "B+" is actually a range. Some people could have gotten mostly Bs and still sneak in to the B+ range with a high grade or two (that's what people mean when they mention a "low B+"), while someone with B+s mixed with a couple A-s will be a "strong B+" or "high B+".

 

The past wisdom of this board is that (generally for all schools) a "strong B+" means you're golden, and the lower you go after that the more of a crapshoot it is.

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I'm pretty much echoing what barelylegal said, but I know of one firm that said specifically that they were only hiring people who were interested in doing transactional work, but they only mentioned that at their firm tour. I can imagine that if anyone had indicated on their cover letter they wanted to do litigation work, they probably weren't offered an OCI, regardless of their grades. So don't be so hard on yourself - you really have no idea what they offered an OCI to one person or another.

 

In terms of having a C+, I don't know about having two, but I know that having one probably isn't the reason why they didn't offer you an OCI. They look at your marks, your resume, and your cover letter. Put yourself in the shoes of a recruiter. Are you going to offer someone an OCI just on the basis of grades? You know absolutely nothing about the person. You can't gauge their areas of interests, whether or not they really like your firm, or anything really. They want your cover letter and your resume so they can glean something about your personality.

 

My last point is that for those of you who are lurking and are comparing the number of OCIs to people who got 15+ ... please don't worry! Many of my friends applied narrowly and got a few OCIs. Don't feel pressured into thinking this process is the be all and end all. There are a lot of good job opportunities still out there. :)

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I was one of those people who got a full slate of OCIs last year and then choked by only getting 1 in-firm. Plenty of people with less OCIs did better than me!

 

Granted, I still landed an amazing position and a full-time offer despite doing so terribly at OCIs (and one that many of my friends working at OCI firms dream for) - so the point is, keep your chin up no matter what!

Edited by Radfahrer
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 Put yourself in the shoes of a recruiter. Are you going to offer someone an OCI just on the basis of grades?

 

Actually, in a lot of cases pertaining specifically to the OCI recruit, I'd wager that in fact this is exactly what happens, and you essentially stated why this is so.  Recruiters know nothing about applicants aside from the materials provided, and grades are the most useful metric available for providing a more or less objective "ranking" of students.  Sure, some students might have experience in a field related to one of their practice areas, or have a fantastic and unique EC that sets them apart.  Your typical law student probably has neither, yet higher grades correlates almost universally with a greater number of OCIs.  Level of interest and personability are what will secure a position, but grades get a student in the door.

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I'm a bit nervous now after accepting 19 OCI invitations - and them all being in one day. Will I be at a disadvantage because I'll be more fatigued and probably be less knowledgeable about each firm compared to other students who have less firms to focus on? Should I pick ~10 or so and really hone in on them during prep?

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I'm a bit nervous now after accepting 19 OCI invitations - and them all being in one day. Will I be at a disadvantage because I'll be more fatigued and probably be less knowledgeable about each firm compared to other students who have less firms to focus on? Should I pick ~10 or so and really hone in on them during prep?

 

Don't be nervous, you can handle 19 without a problem! In fact, as someone alluded to earlier in this thread, you'll probably do worst in the first couple interviews (where you're getting a feeling for the process) and will actually refine your answers (and your obviously hilarious jokes) as you do more interviews. Plus, you have the one hour break plus two 20 minute breaks with free coffee aplenty (plus you'll have an extra 20 minute break or two since you have 19 OCIs as the standard number of slots at Western is usually 21 or 22, I think). Seriously, it's not a problem at all. If the standard was to do 30 interviews in a day, people would be saying you should drop to 20 to make it manageable.

 

I've never really understood the logic behind dropping OCIs. People are worried that they'll be too tired by the end of the day (say, for example, the last five interviews) to do well in them. So, instead of trying to do those five interviews and having a (they presume lower) shot at succeeding, they drop the OCI and give themselves 0% chance of succeeding. Disclaimer: of course, there's exceptions to this (e.x. you now know you don't want to work at certain firms or if you are an extremely nervous and easily-fatigued person).

 

TLDR - you're good, you got this!

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What's the etiquette on ITCs? Specifically since this firm isn't doing OCIs and OCIs haven't happened yet.

 

Send nothing until I know how OCIs went? Send a neutral "thank you for your interest" email?

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If I recall, the ITC etiquette is:

 

If you plan to accept: e-mail saying thanks and you look forward to talking with them or say nothing (totally fine, I'd actually recommend it).

If you plan to decline: e-mail saying thank you for the opportunity, but unfortunately you can't interview with them (short and sweet. Ideally do this as soon as possible, so they can offer to other students).

If you do not yet know: just wait until you know (in your case, after OCIs. You shouldn't feel any pressure to email them before OCIs).

Edited by TheGazeboEffect
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I just got an ITC from Osler - two weeks after the OCI schedule was announced. 

 

I don't think that was an ITC; it was more of a "we're looking forward to talking to you", not "congrats! we want to meet you!"

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Are there any threads already in existence that can offer tips on efficiently researching firms/interviewers leading up to OCIs?

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Are there any threads already in existence that can offer tips on efficiently researching firms/interviewers leading up to OCIs?

Similarly how much do firms expect you to know about them going in. I have no way to differentiate all the big corporate firms. 

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Similarly how much do firms expect you to know about them going in. I have no way to differentiate all the big corporate firms. 

Not much, but probably wouldn't hurt to have a good sense of what they do.  Nothing's worse than hearing a student talk about their interest in a practice area that no one at the firm practices (and firms lie like rugs, just because they say they practice it, doesn't mean they do - look to see how many lawyers indicate that as their practice area).  Go take a look through the "Big Deals" or "Big Suits" archive for lexpert (I think the online version is searchable), you can also search by lawyer name (if you know who you're meeting with, as you probably will). 

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So I've been getting a few e-mails from my recruiters along the lines of "we're looking forward to meeting you at OCIs on Monday!"

 

Should we be responding to these or not?

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So I've been getting a few e-mails from my recruiters along the lines of "we're looking forward to meeting you at OCIs on Monday!"

 

Should we be responding to these or not?

 

No, I would probably avoid it - I don't believe they expect a response, they are just letting you know who you'll be interviewing with.

 

This will give you an opportunity to perhaps have a look at their backgrounds and prepare some questions if you want to (and I would be careful about this, because there's a fine line between demonstrating interest in the person and firm and being creepy. Personally, when interviewing, I do my research on the individual, but I avoid asking personal questions based on that research unless it comes up in conversation.)

 

These pre-OCI emails are largely sent en masse, and I think a good rule in general is that if their email isn't personalized, don't reply to it.

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No, I would probably avoid it - I don't believe they expect a response, they are just letting you know who you'll be interviewing with.

 

This will give you an opportunity to perhaps have a look at their backgrounds and prepare some questions if you want to (and I would be careful about this, because there's a fine line between demonstrating interest in the person and firm and being creepy. Personally, when interviewing, I do my research on the individual, but I avoid asking personal questions based on that research unless it comes up in conversation.)

 

These pre-OCI emails are largely sent en masse, and I think a good rule in general is that if their email isn't personalized, don't reply to it.

 

It's only personalized insofar as it is addressed to me and includes my name. But my friend is getting the same e-mails.

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