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HopingHopper

Moncton grading scheme

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In addition my previous post, you should also be aware of their grading scheme.  You be the judge.

 

A+       4,3       94%

A          4         90%

A-        3,7       88%

 

B+       3,3       84%

B          3         80%

B-        2,7       78%

 

C+       2,3       74%

C          2         70%

C-        1,7       68%

 

D+       1,3       64%

D         1          60%

E          0          0%

 

 

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Once again, could you please spend your time wisely and post on your own school's forum.

 

This is a law degree not some normal bachelor's degree

 

And don't get me started on uOttawa's GPA scale. 6 is a B? and there's no B- lol.

 

You sir are the definition of hypocrite.

Edited by GuiCR12

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In addition my previous post, you should also be aware of their grading scheme.  You be the judge.

 

A+       4,3       94%

A          4         90%

A-        3,7       88%

 

B+       3,3       84%

B          3         80%

B-        2,7       78%

 

C+       2,3       74%

C          2         70%

C-        1,7       68%

 

D+       1,3       64%

D         1          60%

E          0          0%

 

Who the fuck cares what number is associated with what letter. Grades are inherently arbitrary and have meaning only insofar as they measure people's performance relative to that of their peers. 

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Who the fuck cares what number is associated with what letter. Grades are inherently arbitrary and have meaning only insofar as they measure people's performance relative to that of their peers. 

 

Hmmm you're so articulate.  Anyhow, in response to your rhetorical question, I know of people who have cared after learning that.  

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Once again, could you please spend your time wisely and post on your own school's forum.

 

This is a law degree not some normal bachelor's degree

 

And don't get me started on uOttawa's GPA scale. 6 is a B? and there's no B- lol.

 

You sir are the definition of hypocrite.

 

Precisely because of that very same reason, because it is a law degree, in comparison to other schools, one can realize that the grading there is ridiculous. 

 

I am spending my time wisely. I have lots of things to do but I'm on break so why not take my mind off of things for a bit.   You just love changing the subject don't you sneaky sneaky loll.   Anyway I think you should be more grateful that I am at least giving some life to this forgotten part of the forum. 

 

Cheers

Edited by HopingHopper

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Every university assigns letter grades differently. It's completely arbitraty, but as long as the letter appears alongside a percentage on the transcript, who cares? My undergrad school had

 

A

80-100%

B

65-79%

C

55-64%

D

50-54%

F

below 50%

 

But the emphasis was always on the percentage, not the letter. CGPA was accompanied by a cumulative numerical average.

 

I found U Ottawa's grading scheme really wacky and maddening when I went there. You can do 10% better than a classmate and still end up with an identical grade, or get 1% lower and lose a full letter (with no information on the transcript to qualify the letter grade).

 

I'm shocked at how invested you are in arguing about this topic. It's getting pretty embarassing. I do appreciate you pointing out information that you think might be useful to incoming students, but I think you'd be safe to assume your point has been made and you can drop the shitty attitude.

 

Hmmm you're so articulate.  Anyhow, in response to your rhetorical question, I know of people who have cared after learning that.  

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Every university assigns letter grades differently. It's completely arbitraty, but as long as the letter appears alongside a percentage on the transcript, who cares? My undergrad school had

 

A

80-100%

B

65-79%

C

55-64%

D

50-54%

F

below 50%

 

But the emphasis was always on the percentage, not the letter. CGPA was accompanied by a cumulative numerical average.

 

I found U Ottawa's grading scheme really wacky and maddening when I went there. You can do 10% better than a classmate and still end up with an identical grade, or get 1% lower and lose a full letter (with no information on the transcript to qualify the letter grade).

 

I'm shocked at how invested you are in arguing about this topic. It's getting pretty embarassing. I do appreciate you pointing out information that you think might be useful to incoming students, but I think you'd be safe to assume your point has been made and you can drop the shitty attitude.

 

But none of them make it so hard to get to a B or an A which are the only marks employers want to see predominantly. So not only is the average student from Moncton already placed at the bottom of the list  because they are coming from Moncton but they're also prejudiced because what could protententially be a B letter grade at your previous university, (or as you put it,  at Ottawa for that matter),  that would be a C letter grade at Moncton.  So given that situation, what is your plan when applying for jobs?  To make sure to write in your cover letter that a C there would be a B elsewhere???? Seems and is kind of desperate according to what I have been told by reputable lawyers from Ottawa and Toronto.

 

You mentioned that at Ottawa " You can do 10% better than a classmate and still end up with an identical grade, or get 1%  lower and lose a full letter (with no information on the transcript to qualify the letter grade)"  Simply not true.  ​If you had really checked you would have realized that  grading categories at Ottawa are separated by 5% not 10%.  And if you had really checked you would have realized that at Ottawa the policy is that if you are 1% lower from any letter grade, your mark will automatically be rounded up to the next letter grade. And if you had done any research at all, you would have learned that at Moncton you just get a letter grade on your final transcript with no information on the transcript to qualify the letter grade. 

 

You said "I'm shocked at how invested you are in arguing about this topic. It's getting pretty embarrassing.".  Don't worry about me, I'll let you know when I get embarrassed. ​The point of the forum is for people to be able to access information they wouldn't other wise have access to. The information I have posted is not brought to the attention of students before deciding to go to Moncton, nor is it easily accessible through a simple search.   I'm paying it forward because I myself have stumbled upon information on this forum that has helped me make important decisions.   I have merely posted FACTS and it's hilarious that people find themselves bothered by just FACTS.  I just posted the grading point system on this occasion and asked you to be the judge.  I keep on replying because it seems as if some people is interested in sidetracking with the mentioning of Ottawa in an effort to attack the poster of the info because, understandably, they want to defend their institution and ultimately their ego. 

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I don't attend either Ottawa or Moncton. I'd suggest people aren't upset that you're posting "facts" but with the way you're presenting them.

 

Not to be controversial, but why are we assuming the average student from Moncton is "already placed at the bottom of the list" by virtue of attending Moncton? Elsewhere you've written that "[e]veryone knows that students who are not from that region and who still go [to Moncton], do so because they couldn't get in anywhere else."

 

Not intending for this to be personal, but I'd argue that Moncton is just as much a quality program as Ottawa's PDC when you consider the fact that they aren't effectively repeating 1L in 2L, that most of the student body isn't drawn straight from cegep, and that people are more or less aware that it actually exists (though I can imagine some PDC students hoping that employers won't be able to differentiate their JDs from those of students who spent their entire time studying in the JD program).

Edited by msk2012
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But none of them make it so hard to get to a B or an A which are the only marks employers want to see predominantly. So not only is the average student from Moncton already placed at the bottom of the list  because they are coming from Moncton but they're also prejudiced because what could protententially be a B letter grade at your previous university, (or as you put it,  at Ottawa for that matter),  that would be a C letter grade at Moncton.  So given that situation, what is your plan when applying for jobs?  To make sure to write in your cover letter that a C there would be a B elsewhere???? Seems and is kind of desperate according to what I have been told by reputable lawyers from Ottawa and Toronto.

 

You mentioned that at Ottawa " You can do 10% better than a classmate and still end up with an identical grade, or get 1%  lower and lose a full letter (with no information on the transcript to qualify the letter grade)"  Simply not true.  ​If you had really checked you would have realized that  grading categories at Ottawa are separated by 5% not 10%.  And if you had really checked you would have realized that at Ottawa the policy is that if you are 1% lower from any letter grade, your mark will automatically be rounded up to the next letter grade. And if you had done any research at all, you would have learned that at Moncton you just get a letter grade on your final transcript with no information on the transcript to qualify the letter grade. 

 

You said "I'm shocked at how invested you are in arguing about this topic. It's getting pretty embarrassing.".  Don't worry about me, I'll let you know when I get embarrassed. ​The point of the forum is for people to be able to access information they wouldn't other wise have access to. The information I have posted is not brought to the attention of students before deciding to go to Moncton, nor is it easily accessible through a simple search.   I'm paying it forward because I myself have stumbled upon information on this forum that has helped me make important decisions.   I have merely posted FACTS and it's hilarious that people find themselves bothered by just FACTS.  I just posted the grading point system on this occasion and asked you to be the judge.  I keep on replying because it seems as if some people is interested in sidetracking with the mentioning of Ottawa in an effort to attack the poster of the info because, understandably, they want to defend their institution and ultimately their ego. 

 

 

I have a degree from the University of Ottawa. I'm familiar with the grading policy. You might be right about rounding up--it never came up during my program. I didn't mean to imply that every grade letter had a 10% range--but the top one does. 90-100%. If the rounding-up policy is accurate (not arguing--I didn't look into it), then my 98% in one of my courses was worth exactly the same as the 89% the person next to me earned. Not saying 90s are the norm in any law school, or that U Ottawa is any less of a quality school because it's grading scheme is not very precise, I'm just pointing out that all schools are different and you shouldn't worry about the letter if the percentage is clearly visible on your transcript.

 

I had no intention of sidetracking the conversation by mentioning U Ottawa, and I think 'people' are bothered by your condescending tone, not the information you've provided. I have thanked you (and sincerely mean it) for providing details on the grading scheme and language policy, but the markets in Ottawa and Toronto are not comparable to those elsewhere in Canada. Not everyone is from Ontario, and not everyone wants to work in Toronto or Ottawa.

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I don't attend either Ottawa or Moncton. I'd suggest people aren't upset that you're posting "facts" but with the way you're presenting them.

 

Not to be controversial, but why are we assuming the average student from Moncton is "already placed at the bottom of the list" by virtue of attending Moncton? Elsewhere you've written that "[e]veryone knows that students who are not from that region and who still go [to Moncton], do so because they couldn't get in anywhere else."

 

Not intending for this to be personal, but I'd argue that Moncton is just as much a quality program as Ottawa's PDC when you consider the fact that they aren't effectively repeating 1L in 2L, that most of the student body isn't drawn straight from cegep, and that people are more or less aware that it actually exists (though I can imagine some PDC students hoping that employers won't be able to differentiate their JDs from those of students who spent their entire time studying in the JD program).

 

This is EXACTLY my point. You say you're 'presenting the facts' but saying U de Moncton students are at the bottom of the list is rude and plain untrue. I actually called firms when making a decision between the two schools and every single one of them prefers a well-rounded, business-oriented candidate who is GOOD WITH CLIENTS (P.S. hope you wouldn't speak to clients the way you've been 'presenting the facts' on this forum) over top academic performers or candidates from any particular school. All firms I contacted have had nothing but wonderful things to say about their experience with U de Moncton students. Assuming that people chose U de Moncton out of desperation or ignorance is insulting and just plain stupid.

Edited by NL709

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Precisely because of that very same reason, because it is a law degree, in comparison to other schools, one can realize that the grading there is ridiculous. 

 

I am spending my time wisely. I have lots of things to do but I'm on break so why not take my mind off of things for a bit.   You just love changing the subject don't you sneaky sneaky loll.   Anyway I think you should be more grateful that I am at least giving some life to this forgotten part of the forum. 

 

Cheers

 

Just because you're on break doesn't mean you should take it to tarnish a school's reputation.

 

Also maybe you could try and find a job, that might be a good use of your time. Since you have to pay 4x more then I do per year.

 

That's something people should think of as well!

Edited by GuiCR12

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I don't attend either Ottawa or Moncton. I'd suggest people aren't upset that you're posting "facts" but with the way you're presenting them.

 

Not to be controversial, but why are we assuming the average student from Moncton is "already placed at the bottom of the list" by virtue of attending Moncton? Elsewhere you've written that "[e]veryone knows that students who are not from that region and who still go [to Moncton], do so because they couldn't get in anywhere else."

 

Not intending for this to be personal, but I'd argue that Moncton is just as much a quality program as Ottawa's PDC when you consider the fact that they aren't effectively repeating 1L in 2L, that most of the student body isn't drawn straight from cegep, and that people are more or less aware that it actually exists (though I can imagine some PDC students hoping that employers won't be able to differentiate their JDs from those of students who spent their entire time studying in the JD program).

I don't want to get involved in the main debate happening here, but I thought I'd clarify a few points you made with respect to the PDC Program.

 

Firstly, the only 1L courses repeated in 2L are Civil Law Obligations and Civil Law Property, since in 1L the program teaches only the Common Law. In that sense, it's not much different than the program everyone is forced to take at McGill.

 

Secondly, no one from CEGEP is even allowed to apply to the PDC, unlike McGill, since it's treated by admissions the same as a Common Law degree.

 

Thirdly, I'd be more than happy for employers to know that I attended the PDC, given its more difficult course load and admission standards. Furthermore, the program effectively gives students the option to hold summer positions, as well as to article, in any Canadian province, including Quebec. I'd say that's a pretty good incentive/advantage.

Edited by Karadayi
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I don't want to get involved in the main debate happening here, but I thought I'd clarify a few points you made with respect to the PDC Program.

 

Firstly, the only 1L courses repeated in 2L are Civil Law Obligations and Civil Law Property, since in 1L the program teaches only the Common Law. In that sense, it's not much different than the program everyone is forced to take at McGill.

 

Secondly, no one from CEGEP is even allowed to apply to the PDC, unlike McGill, since it's treated by admissions the same as a Common Law degree.

 

Thirdly, I'd be more than happy for employers to know that I attended the PDC, given its more difficult course load and admission standards. Furthermore, the program effectively gives students the option to hold summer positions, as well as to article, in any Canadian province, including Quebec. I'd say that's a pretty good incentive/advantage.

 

Happy to be corrected. Had been led astray by this thread. My overall point being that there's enough room for both programs to be quality programs.

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This is EXACTLY my point. You say you're 'presenting the facts' but saying U de Moncton students are at the bottom of the list is rude and plain untrue. I actually called firms when making a decision between the two schools and every single one of them prefers a well-rounded, business-oriented candidate who is GOOD WITH CLIENTS (P.S. hope you wouldn't speak to clients the way you've been 'presenting the facts' on this forum) over top academic performers or candidates from any particular school. All firms I contacted have had nothing but wonderful things to say about their experience with U de Moncton students. Assuming that people chose U de Moncton out of desperation or ignorance is insulting and just plain stupid.

 

 

Happy to be corrected. Had been led astray by this thread. My overall point being that there's enough room for both programs to be quality programs.

 

 

My intention is and has always been to just stay on the Moncton topic but it has somehow turned into a school's comparison thread.  I posted FACTS and those offended started defending their ego by attacking Ottawa so that's how it all went down hill from there.  I was forced to correct some ppl who attempted to elevate their program at Moncton for what it is not.  In any event I'll say this anecdote.  

 

I was working for a law firm in Ottawa for my 1L summer period and I happened to be having lunch with my principal, a very reputable lawyer who has a long history of working in big law and has been practicing law for decades.  I happened to share with him and other lawyers who were also present that I knew someone who was attending Moncton.  They all put on this politically correct face, followed by an awkward silence that lasted about 3-4 seconds.  Then he broke the silence and said: "Well I'll tell you one thing.  Tell your friend that he'd better get  straight A's at Moncton if he wants to ever be considered seriously; otherwise, he has no chance. "

 

NL709. I tell you this because I realize that a lot of us have not had a lot of guidance when it comes to our professional lives and it's important to have forums like this that allow students to learn things the way they truly are , without all of the sugar coating that institutions put on their  programs to incite students to go pay.  While I understand that you attempted to do your research, also realize that the firm(s) you cold-call like that may just give you a politically correct response, so it may not be that reliable.   The story I have told you is true and veridical.  Also, I have asked other lawyers, now that I am working in downtown Toronto for the summer and they too feel the same way about someone coming from Moncton.  While I realize it is impossible for every firm in the country to feel the same way, I am telling you that it appears that if you ever want to work in a city or region that is somewhat of a legal hub, your chances of coming from Moncton are almost nil if you don't have an A average.   And given Moncton's grading system and language policies directly affecting marks, your chances of achieving an A average are more limited than at any other Canadian law school.

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Just because you're on break doesn't mean you should take it to tarnish a school's reputation.

 

Also maybe you could try and find a job, that might be a good use of your time. Since you have to pay 4x more then I do per year.

 

That's something people should think of as well!

 

I told you I was on break.  I meant break from the office where I am working. I have a summer legal job.  I am not tarnishing the school's reputation. If you think highlighting their policies is tarnishing, or if you think that explaining how things really are at Moncton is tarnishing then I guess we agree that the Moncton experience is lackluster to say the least.

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What the hell is being said here? HopingHopper, are you saying that because Moncton has a 'B' grade pegged at 80%, it's somehow harder to get a 'B' grade there than at a different Canadian law school where, let's say, a 'B' would require 70%? I really hope that's not what this whole thread is about.

 

if you ever want to work in a city or region that is somewhat of a legal hub, your chances of coming from Moncton are almost nil if you don't have an A average.

 

According to one lawyer you spoke with.

 

given Moncton's grading system and language policies directly affecting marks, your chances of achieving an A average are more limited than at any other Canadian law school.

 

No.

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LOL I suck at quoting here so here is my best attempt to reply to iBurger:

What the hell is being said here? HopingHopper, are you saying that because Moncton has a 'B' grade pegged at 80%, it's somehow harder to get a 'B' grade there than at a different Canadian law school where, let's say, a 'B' would require 70%? I really hope that's not what this whole thread is about.

 

 

According to one lawyer you spoke with.

 

 

No.

 

RE: You have almost understood what I've said.  I am suggesting that their ridiculously high percentages in order to get to any letter grade along with  their disproportionate language policies make it harder for any student to get to an A or a B or whatever.

 

----

HopingHopper, on 02 Jun 2015 - 2:25 PM, said: if you ever want to work in a city or region that is somewhat of a legal hub, your chances of coming from Moncton are almost nil if you don't have an A average.

 

iBurger, on 02 Jun 2015 - said: According to one lawyer you spoke with.

----

RE: I invite you to reread my friend.  You will notice that I suggested this was not only acquiesced by the other lawyers present (not just any recent graduates but lawyers with track records) but also confirmed with other lawyers from a different region at a different time.  That weighs in favour of reliability.

 

----

HopingHopper, on 02 Jun 2015 - 2:25 PM, said: given Moncton's grading system and language policies directly affecting marks, your chances of achieving an A average are more limited than at any other Canadian law school

 

iBurger, on 02 Jun 2015 - 3:07 PM, said:    No.

----

RE: Really?  Care to explain why not instead of just offering an insipid 'no'?

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Well then I give up. I'm gonna go nowhere with my degree.

 

So thankful you showed me the way.

 

If this is what you do on your break you clearly have nothing better to do with your life.

 

You didn't wanna make it a school comparison. What do you think people will say when someone from another school comes here and throws arbitrary information on a forum.

 

Why do you do this? How does this impact you?

 

The answer: you dislike the school or think very little of it so yes you're tarnishing its reputation.

 

You don't see me going on the uOttawa forum, I could very well do just that. I did my undergrad there and I hated it.

 

Personal feelings but I don't feel compelled to go and shit all over the institution.

 

Whatever your vendetta is you clearly need to get a life. And if you think I can't get a job in a "metropolitan area" it'll be my pleasure to meet you in court one day.

 

Once again how many Moncton Ottawa cups have you won in the past 15 years? I'm sure your litigation skills will be on par with me.

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HopingHopper, I will not quote the franken-post you left above, but I will, reluctantly, address your objection to my "insipid no."

 

Where school x gives out A's for 90% and school y gives them out for 80%, it doesn't necessarily follow that it's therefore harder to get an A at school x. The percentages are relative to students in your institution. I'd bet that at Moncton, like at the overwhelming majority of law schools, there is a mandatory B-median curve, and likely a rule stating that, let's say, 10% of grades must be in the A-range (88%+ range for Moncton). So how in hell would it be harder, assuming that the caliber of students is the same, to land in the top 10% at Moncton than at any other school with the same type of distribution? You still have to beat out 90% of your peers. Am I getting through?

 

Another thing. I went to university in the U.S. for a bit during my undergrad. Down there, to get an A required, like Moncton, a 90%. But at the school I went to in Canada, an A required an 80%. Same deal. However, it wasn't comparatively harder to get an A in the U.S. than it was in Canada. They just pegged on an extra 10%. That's exactly what's going on here, with the discrepancy between the percentages at Moncton and other Canadian law schools. If you're an A student at Moncton, it doesn't follow that you ought to be considered an A+ student at any other Canadian law school simply because you had a 90% average, which would, on its face, be an A+ at some other schools.

 

Lastly, I really can't comment on the "disproportionate language policies" bit, mainly because I have no idea what those are. But I still have a problem seeing how, when grades are likely curved at Moncton, it would be harder to get good grades there than at any other Canadian law school. You're still competing against other students who have to deal with the very same policies.

Edited by iBurger

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HopingHopper,

 

Since you've mentioned business lawyers, BigLaw and downtown Toronto in a couple posts, I will assume that you work in corporate law. Have you spoken with lawyers who work in different fields and areas, such as social justice and criminal law, about how they perceive Moncton law and the students they have met from there?

 

Those who work on Bay street or Biglaw do view some schools as better than others when it comes to corporate law. They are very judgemental and I was told by one lawyer at Blakes that if it was up to him, he would not hire anyone other than U of T, Osgoode, McGill and UBC. Most of the time this belief is irrational and only said for a quick laugh.

 

I don't know much about Moncton law, but my opinion of Ottawa law has dropped in recent years with them accepting a lot of academically mediocre students, who have also been terrible to work alongside. These are my personal beliefs, stereotypes about the general student body, but I don't bring them with me to work everyday and don't view every Ottawa law grad in the same light. Thus, it's unfair for you to generalize and put down Moncton so irrationally, when the school in question doesn't even cater to the law area of interest or geographical area that I am assuming you are pursuing, and someone else may view the institution that you attended in a similar negative light.

Edited by Lawstudent1

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