Jump to content
kenny123

Bond Law or Leicester Law?

Ryn

This topic has been archived but remains pinned for your general information. Feel free to start a new topic about all of this if you have further questions. 

Message added by Ryn

Recommended Posts

Hello, 

 

I am in a slight dilemma, and cant make up my mind as to what Law school to attend. 

 

Its not the weather nor is it the city that I am particularly worried about. 

 

The NCA  is my biggest concern. 

 

To my understanding both law schools cater to Canadians, although bond offers Canadian electives  that satisfy the NCA , is this statement correct? 

 

Leicester has great reviews, although they do not offer these courses, at-least to my knowledge.

 

Need some insight on which degree is better and the path that has the least resistance. 

 

Further there is talk that if you fail bond in the first year they cut your visa and send you home, is there any truth to this statement?

 

I no this is not the case in the U.K. 

 

Your answers are greatly appreciated.  

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I no this is not the case in the U.K. 

 

This will be a problem know matter where you go

Edited by leafs_law
  • Like 14

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Take a year and study for the lsat, go back to boost your gpa, or do whatever you have to do over the next year to really exhaust all your options.  If you are unable to get in next cycle, consider both the options again.

 

I would choose leicester for cost and time (graduate entry llb), Bond for lifestyle and the weather.  Overall leicester is the better choice, but I would say that your decision should be between U of Birmingham, City U London, or U of Sydney if you are set on going to Australia. The tuition at U of Sydney is comparable to Bond and they offer better scholarships for foreign students, although the entrance requirements are slightly higher (they won't just accept anyone like Bond, but it still is not difficult to get in if you are paying the foreign tuition $$).  In addition, they have offered Canadian Constitutional Law in the past and their 1L program is similar to those found in Canadian law programs.  City U L and U of Birmingham have offered Canadian Con Law in their second year module, so it may cut down the NCA requirements upon your return and they also have the Graduate entry LLB and the tuition is comparable to Leicester (although the cost of living is much higher in London, about the same in Birmingham).

 

Even if you feel beaten by the application process do yourself a favour and give it one more go...it will save alot of time, money, and frustration.  

Goodluck!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hello, 

 

I am in a slight dilemma, and cant make up my mind as to what Law school to attend. 

 

Its not the weather nor is it the city that I am particularly worried about. 

 

The NCA  is my biggest concern. 

 

To my understanding both law schools cater to Canadians, although bond offers Canadian electives  that satisfy the NCA , is this statement correct? 

 

Leicester has great reviews, although they do not offer these courses, at-least to my knowledge.

 

Need some insight on which degree is better and the path that has the least resistance. 

 

Further there is talk that if you fail bond in the first year they cut your visa and send you home, is there any truth to this statement?

 

I no this is not the case in the U.K. 

 

Your answers are greatly appreciated.  

You didn't mention whether or not $$ is a big concern, as Bond is a lot more expensive.

 

Bond is the path of least resistance, as far as NCA is concerned. Most grads are not assigned any NCA exams because they take those courses as electives at Bond.

 

Leicester grads, on the other hand, are assigned 5 NCA exams (3 year program) or 7 exams (2 year program).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Money is not an issue. I am just concerned if i will be able to study when its 40 Degrees Celsius outside. 

 

Also Its 2 years 8 months Full Time ! What does that exactly mean?  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

[...]

 

Bond is the path of least resistance, as far as NCA is concerned. Most grads are not assigned any NCA exams because they take those courses as electives at Bond.

 

Leicester grads, on the other hand, are assigned 5 NCA exams (3 year program) or 7 exams (2 year program).

 

It's not true that Bond grads get no NCA exams, but it is true that they get less. My understanding from recent AUS grads back in Canada was that they had to do professional responsibility for sure, and I believe 3 others (for 4 in total) was the norm. I cannot see the NCA allowing someone with a foreign law degree, even having taken Canadian courses, to simply take the provincial bar exam, article, and become a lawyer.

 

Your UK info is accurate, to the best of my knowledge. I believe (although am not certain) that even if you were to take Canadian Constitutional in the UK, you would still have to take 7 exams if you completed the LLB for Grads program, as the NCA wants to ensure you have the equivalent number of courses to someone taking a 3 year degree. You would just have to do another one of the NCA's electives (Family, Tax, Civil Procedure and Remedies).

 

 

Money is not an issue. I am just concerned if i will be able to study when its 40 Degrees Celsius outside. 

 

Also Its 2 years 8 months Full Time ! What does that exactly mean?  

 

Not trying to be snarky, but it concerns me that you can't figure out what this means. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

When I'm implying 2 years 8 months, I'm asking weather it is year round or this includes holidays.

Look at the school's website and their calendar of important dates - this is a very simple question to figure out by doing the minimum level of research. This is what I was alluding to when I said it concerned me that you were unable to figure this out. Going the NCA route is very difficult; it involves a LOT of self direction. and there is no one there to hold your hand. You need to be comfortable taking charge of a situation yourself and be able to figure out requirements and deadlines. And, a quick tip - being a lawyer involves an awful lot of this as well. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's not true that Bond grads get no NCA exams, but it is true that they get less. My understanding from recent AUS grads back in Canada was that they had to do professional responsibility for sure, and I believe 3 others (for 4 in total) was the norm. I cannot see the NCA allowing someone with a foreign law degree, even having taken Canadian courses, to simply take the provincial bar exam, article, and become a lawyer.

 

Your UK info is accurate, to the best of my knowledge. I believe (although am not certain) that even if you were to take Canadian Constitutional in the UK, you would still have to take 7 exams if you completed the LLB for Grads program, as the NCA wants to ensure you have the equivalent number of courses to someone taking a 3 year degree. You would just have to do another one of the NCA's electives (Family, Tax, Civil Procedure and Remedies).

 

 

 

Not trying to be snarky, but it concerns me that you can't figure out what this means. 

It is true. Most Bond grads now return and are not assigned any NCA exams.  This is because they take these Canadian courses over there.  Not sure why you cannot see the NCA allowing that.  It is not a guarantee that you won't have to do any exams (as they consider each case indivdually and look at your marks etc) but 0 exams is the norm for Bond grads now assuming they take all the Canadian electives and not get terrible marks in them lol.

 

The recent Aus grads you know probably didn't go to Bond, or if they did then they probably didn't take all the Canadian courses.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It is true. Most Bond grads now return and are not assigned any NCA exams.  This is because they take these Canadian courses over there.  Not sure why you cannot see the NCA allowing that.  It is not a guarantee that you won't have to do any exams (as they consider each case indivdually and look at your marks etc) but 0 exams is the norm for Bond grads now assuming they take all the Canadian electives and not get terrible marks in them lol.

 

The recent Aus grads you know probably didn't go to Bond, or if they did then they probably didn't take all the Canadian courses.

 

I'm more than happy to stand corrected, and I certainly won't claim to be an expert in the area. It simply surprises me to hear that they get zero exams, when I've always heard that Professional Responsibility at the least was ordered. Perhaps the electives I know others had to do in addition were due to their grades at school, I never asked.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I know that Bond started claiming that students could complete all their requirements and return to no NCA exams. I don't know of anyone who has actually had that happen yet. Is this still in the realm of a hopeful claim, or has it been tested yet?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm more than happy to stand corrected, and I certainly won't claim to be an expert in the area. It simply surprises me to hear that they get zero exams, when I've always heard that Professional Responsibility at the least was ordered. Perhaps the electives I know others had to do in addition were due to their grades at school, I never asked.

Canadian Bond students have to take a professional ethics course, just as they would at a Canadian school. The only difference is that our authorities and statutes are Australian. Ethics is actually the most applicable Australian course we take. I'd imagine that cooking the books, breaching duties to clients or lying to the court is frowned upon the same way in Canada as it is in Australia ;)

 

I am a current Bond Student. However, I suggest you exhaust ALL of your Canadian opportunities before committing to moving across the world with very little guarantee as to your future as a lawyer. It is tough to transition from any foreign school into a position in Canada. Bond is no exception. That being said, I'll clear up some of the confusion and misconceptions in this thread. 

 

I can personally attest to the fact that JD students graduating from Bond with marks above 60% (this is slightly below class averages at Bond) in ALL of the NCA required courses will not need to write any NCA exams. This has been the case for at least two years. 

 

Bond offers: The Foundations of Canadian Law (as mandated by the NCA), Canadian Constitutional Law (An intensive course that consists of 6 hours of seminars per week for 12 weeks), Canadian Administrative Law and Canadian Criminal Law. These courses are all taught by Canadian lawyers and/or legal scholars who have impressive credentials and are effective teachers. The previous head of the Canadian department is now the Dean of Lakehead's law school, for what that may be worth to you.

 

These courses are generally taken in the last 3 semesters of a 6 semester JD degree. At that point most students have taken most, if not all of the equivalent Australian courses (ie: Criminal Law and Procedure, Evidence, Aussie Admin, Aussie Constitutional Law). The trade-off is that these are listed as your "elective" courses. Therefore, if you take all of these courses and don't overload your schedule, you will return to Canada without any "specialty" courses. It's a cost:benefit analysis that each Canadian student must undertake.

 

In addition, Bond has just created a Canadian advocacy program which selects a team of students who will train their advocacy skills in preparation for competition in the Wilson Moot, which takes place in Toronto each February. 

 

I really can't contrast any other international or Canadian schools to Bond. I can only say that this route has worked out for a higher percentage of Bond students than most people on these boards know, or would like to admit.

 

With all of that out of the way... I'd like to note that I have just handed in the final assignment of my law school career! Only 6 weeks and 4 exams to go until I'm on my way back home! Woohoo!

 

Edited by sudz
  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for posting this, sudz.

I was wondering if you'd be willing to comment on the challenges of securing articles in Canada from all the way over is Aus. I imagine both geography and employer bias are things Bond students need to contend with. What has been your impression on that front?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for all the info, sudz!

 

As a Bond student, what is the best strategy if you hope to transfer back to Canada after 1L? (Excellent grades, of course, but more specifically in course selection). Since the Canadian electives are all 3L courses is it impossible to take them 1L? What do you think of this option, and why did you choose to stay at Bond?

 

Thanks so much!

 

 

 

Bond offers: The Foundations of Canadian Law (as mandated by the NCA), Canadian Constitutional Law (An intensive course that consists of 6 hours of seminars per week for 12 weeks), Canadian Administrative Law and Canadian Criminal Law. These courses are all taught by Canadian lawyers and/or legal scholars who have impressive credentials and are effective teachers. The previous head of the Canadian department is now the Dean of Lakehead's law school, for what that may be worth to you.

These courses are generally taken in the last 3 semesters of a 6 semester JD degree. At that point most students have taken most, if not all of the equivalent Australian courses (ie: Criminal Law and Procedure, Evidence, Aussie Admin, Aussie Constitutional Law). The trade-off is that these are listed as your "elective" courses. Therefore, if you take all of these courses and don't overload your schedule, you will return to Canada without any "specialty" courses. It's a cost:benefit analysis that each Canadian student must undertake.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hello, 

 

I am in a slight dilemma, and cant make up my mind as to what Law school to attend. 

 

Its not the weather nor is it the city that I am particularly worried about. 

 

The NCA  is my biggest concern. 

 

To my understanding both law schools cater to Canadians, although bond offers Canadian electives  that satisfy the NCA , is this statement correct? 

 

Leicester has great reviews, although they do not offer these courses, at-least to my knowledge.

 

Need some insight on which degree is better and the path that has the least resistance. 

 

Further there is talk that if you fail bond in the first year they cut your visa and send you home, is there any truth to this statement?

 

I no this is not the case in the U.K. 

 

Your answers are greatly appreciated.  

I'm in a similar situation. I would say, don't be afraid to PHONE the schools' admissions officers, or directors of the program if need be, to get your questions answered. (You can also ask them to refer you to other Canadian students at their institution who can answer some of your questions).

 

The admissions officer at Leicester is VERY informative and will give you a REALISTIC evaluation of your prospects (she does not sugar coat things- she basically said some Canadians do well and go on to bigger and better things, while others don't). I talked to her for over an hour.  

 

Best, 

 

A

Edited by AllieL

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@sudz - please stick around. This board lacks for realistic perspectives on foreign law schools. In particular, like Hegdis, I would be interested in your experiences on returning to Canada.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for posting this, sudz.

 

I was wondering if you'd be willing to comment on the challenges of securing articles in Canada from all the way over is Aus. I imagine both geography and employer bias are things Bond students need to contend with. What has been your impression on that front?

 

I'm interested in hearing sudz' take as well, from the Aus. perspective.

 

I can offer some insight from the UK school perspective for those who are interested. I did the 2 year senior status LLB and completed the NCAs, so was back in Canada when I was applying for articling position; therefore, my experience wasn't hindered by geography, which would be different from a Bond student who is not doing the NCA exams. I applied during the normal application cycle, alongside Canadian students, and was successful in securing a position. In the interviews I had, I was always asked why I chose to do my degree in the UK rather than Canada (and I did have personal reasons for doing so, and relied heavily on those). From none of my interviewers did I get the impression that my application was held in a lower regard due to where I did my degree. But the caveat is this - while those who brought me in for interviews may not have had an impeding bias, I do truly believe that many other firms do have a bias towards this, so great that they were not even willing to give the chance with an interview. 

 

I am an objectively decently strong candidate on paper; academically, I was top of my class in both years of law school and won a half dozen prizes. I have moot, debating and pro bono experience, as well as volunteer activities in the community. I worked in law firms in the summer before law school, as well as the summer between first and second year and I have multiple years of work in another field as well. I applied to approximately 60 firms and received 4 interviews. Of those, I was offered one position and was second choice for another. Things worked out great for me, and I've very happy about it. But, I was in probably the best case situation, and it was still an uphill battle. Had my application package been the same with the exception of having attended a UK law school, I do think I would have had many more offers at least for interviews. There's a stigma to going to law school outside of Canada and then returning, and many firms aren't willing to give you the chance to find out your reasons why; there are scores of great Canadian candidates that they'll turn to instead. It is a reality; I have classmates from the UK who are back in Canada now who have yet to secure articling positions. Most are smart people, who have decent grades and experiences. But getting your foot in the door for interviews is, in all likelihood, made that much harder with a foreign degree. It's certainly not impossible - but it can be a struggle.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am an objectively decently strong candidate on paper; academically, I was top of my class in both years of law school and won a half dozen prizes.

 

Top of your class both years? I don't think you need to be so humble!

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.



  • Recent Posts

    • I added up U of T's tuition fees in each year ($38,233.45 for 1L, $38,183.45 for each of 2 and 3L), and then subtracted the sum of UBC's tuition ($12,639.36 for 1L and $11,849.40 for each of 2 and 3L).  In fairness, I did miss UBC's student fees, which are "approximately $1,100 per year for J.D. students", so I guess that drops the price difference to $74,962.19.
    • That is what mine has been for months as well. 
    • Here is some more information that I just learned from calling a few schools, for anyone interested in this topic and reading this thread.  When determining cGPA, all ontario schools go by what OLSAS provides, and OLSAS counts all courses taken at an undergraduate level regardless of whether they are counting towards a degree or not. How schools look at L2 is internal and possibly different for each school.  Schools outside of Ontario because they dont go through OLSAS probably also have their own way of looking at cGPA and L2.
    • How did you get to 78,262? I assumed the UofT tuition to be $33,300 and UBC tuition to be $12000. On-campus UBC residence seems to be slightly more expensive compared to grad house at UofT
    • I read that all Canadian law school provide good legal education. What constitutes a good legal education? Ability to find employment, good professors, better network, good clinical opportunities? What would be considered a 'bad legal education'?
×
×
  • Create New...