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Will I get into UofT Law with these stats?

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Hi! I'm new on here. I'm also finishing up my last year at University of Toronto. I'm doing a Specialist in Financial Economics (HBSc).

 

Stats:

 

cGPA: 3.3

GPA (of best 3 years): 4.0

LSAT Score: 172

 

The reason my cGPA is so low is because I did very poorly in my first year. Note: I am completing this degree in 6 years because I took a year off for financial reasons, and I also took an extra year because I switched Specialists and needed to make up some courses. The first year of my program, I did very poorly (mostly 60's) and the second year I did average (mostly 70's) and I achieved 85+ on the next three years. In between my 2nd and 3rd year I took a year off.

 

Softs:

 

Executive for DECA

Admin team of UEC (undergraduate economics council)

LOTS of volunteer work

Worked part-time at a market research firm

Volunteered with Habitat for Humanity

Part of SAA (South Asian Alliance)

 

I've done a lot more extra volunteer work on the side as well and worked with Elections Canada too.

 

My questions are:

 

1) With these stats, what is the likelihood I will get into UofT Law?

2) What are some of the stats some of you guys have gotten into UofT Law with?

3) Any other law schools in Ontario that I'd fit the criteria for?

4) How much would the discrepancies (ie., 6 years to finish, year off, first year low gpa, second year mediocre gpa, program switch and extra year) on my transcript affect my chances at law schools on a whole, and UofT law in particular?

5) What are some of the major things I need for most good law schools in Ontario, in general?

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1) With these stats, what is the likelihood I will get into UofT Law?

2) What are some of the stats some of you guys have gotten into UofT Law with?

3) Any other law schools in Ontario that I'd fit the criteria for?

4) How much would the discrepancies (ie., 6 years to finish, year off, first year low gpa, second year mediocre gpa, program switch and extra year) on my transcript affect my chances at law schools on a whole, and UofT law in particular?

5) What are some of the major things I need for most good law schools in Ontario, in general?

 

 

1. with a 4.0 and a 172, 99%

3. all of them

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I have a feeling this person is calculating their GPA wrong if an 85 average turns into a 4.0...

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I have a feeling this person is calculating their GPA wrong if an 85 average turns into a 4.0...

 

Depends on how they got the 85% I guess. If they have a percentage GPA, yeah, they are. However, in many faculties, an 85-89% in a course gives you an A, and an A is a 4.0 generally. :)

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At UofT undergrad, 85s are 4.0s, so it's certainly valid. Not sure if OLSAS does the same calculation though.

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Depends on how they got the 85% I guess. If they have a percentage GPA, yeah, they are. However, in many faculties, an 85-89% in a course gives you an A, and an A is a 4.0 generally. :)

 

Yep, as I replied, at UofT an 85+ qualifies as 4.0. How would OLSAS calculate this?

Also, any feedback on my other questions?

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OLSAS converts U of T's A to 3.9. It's on the OLSAS site.

 

Yeah, one of the disadvantages to having a percentile system at U of T is that it hurts you when your cGPA is done.

 

For example, if you went to most schools, you could get an 85% in a course and they would just give you an A. The A's, when turned into GPA, would give you a 4.0. However, because U of T does not do this (in favour of the more precise percentile grades), you end up with a number which can be differentiated from other students. I.E., it is possible to tell the difference between your 85% and someone else's 89%; and in fact, you might even end up with a lower percentage than you would have in a CGPA system (though, the inverse could be true too - it all depends on whether you're on the upper half or lower half of the letter grade on average).

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Yeah, one of the disadvantages to having a percentile system at U of T is that it hurts you when your cGPA is done.

 

For example, if you went to most schools, you could get an 85% in a course and they would just give you an A. The A's, when turned into GPA, would give you a 4.0. However, because U of T does not do this (in favour of the more precise percentile grades), you end up with a number which can be differentiated from other students. I.E., it is possible to tell the difference between your 85% and someone else's 89%; and in fact, you might even end up with a lower percentage than you would have in a CGPA system (though, the inverse could be true too - it all depends on whether you're on the upper half or lower half of the letter grade on average).

U of T does do this. It's only OLSAS that discounts A from A+, and in this regard U of T is not unique. OLSAS treats As from virtually every Canadian school as a 3.9. The only school that gets a break in this regard is McGill, whose A = 4.0, because at McGill A and A+ are clumped together (this of course sucks for McGill students who apply to the US, where A+ = 4.333).

 

A few other schools have odd grading systems, but at no school except McGill is a grade below 90/A+ converted to 4.0 by OLSAS.

Edited by Stupor

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Yeah, one of the disadvantages to having a percentile system at U of T is that it hurts you when your cGPA is done.

 

For example, if you went to most schools, you could get an 85% in a course and they would just give you an A. The A's, when turned into GPA, would give you a 4.0. However, because U of T does not do this (in favour of the more precise percentile grades), you end up with a number which can be differentiated from other students. I.E., it is possible to tell the difference between your 85% and someone else's 89%; and in fact, you might even end up with a lower percentage than you would have in a CGPA system (though, the inverse could be true too - it all depends on whether you're on the upper half or lower half of the letter grade on average).

 

 

Thanks for this information! How heavily does UofT look at one's cGPA? As stated, my overall cGPA isn't very strong -- only a 3.3. I understand that UofT does take your GPA of your best three years into account, but they would obviously also look at my cGPA correct? How much influence would my cGPA have on my admission status, with my best three years GPA and LSAT score? And how much would the discrepancies on my transcript affect my application? My questions are a bit redundant, I know, but I haven't quite gotten their answers yet.

 

And on a side note, what percentile grade would constitute as a 4.0 for OLSAS?

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U of T does do this. It's only OLSAS that discounts A from A+, and in this regard U of T is not unique. OLSAS treats As from virtually every Canadian school as a 3.9. The only school that gets a break in this regard is McGill, whose A = 4.0, because at McGill A and A+ are clumped together (this of course sucks for McGill students who apply to the US, where A+ = 4.333).

 

A few other schools have odd grading systems, but at no school except McGill is a grade below 90/A+ converted to 4.0 by OLSAS.

 

That really does suck. But you are correct -- I have also heard that an A+ in the states is a 4.3. However, I don't plan on practicing law in America, so I don't see the point in applying to their schools, since I'd have to write the bar here again when I come back to practice. I also don't think I'd get into any of their T14 schools, with my stats.

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U of T does do this. It's only OLSAS that discounts A from A+, and in this regard U of T is not unique. OLSAS treats As from virtually every Canadian school as a 3.9. The only school that gets a break in this regard is McGill, whose A = 4.0, because at McGill A and A+ are clumped together (this of course sucks for McGill students who apply to the US, where A+ = 4.333).

 

A few other schools have odd grading systems, but at no school except McGill is a grade below 90/A+ converted to 4.0 by OLSAS.

 

U of T follows two different grading schemes (as evidenced by 3, 7 on this chart: http://www.ouac.on.ca/docs/olsas/c_olsas_b.pdf) however, I take your general point.

 

In any event, the general point stands: differences in grading policy can make a difference for students, e.g., some schools consider an A to be 85-93% whereas others it's 85-89%. It really depends. The system OLSAS uses of turning A's into 3.9s is kind of dumb, since an A by definition is a 4.0.

 

It's also kind of arbitrary. E.G., a 50-54% should be a D- or D (depending if you have a D-), which would be a 0.70 or 1.00. This is what it is treated at Memorial (column 6), but the same grade is treated as a 1.7 (equivalent to a C-, or 60-62%) at Queens (column 5).

Edited by Pyke

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U of T follows two different grading schemes (as evidenced by 3, 7 on this chart: http://www.ouac.on.ca/docs/olsas/c_olsas_b.pdf) however, I take your general point.

 

In any event, the general point stands: differences in grading policy can make a difference for students, e.g., some schools consider an A to be 85-93% whereas others it's 85-89%. It really depends. The system OLSAS uses of turning A's into 3.9s is kind of dumb, since an A by definition is a 4.0.

 

It's also kind of arbitrary. E.G., a 50-54% should be a D- or D (depending if you have a D-), which would be a 0.70 or 1.00. This is what it is treated at Memorial (column 6), but the same grade is treated as a 1.7 (equivalent to a C-, or 60-62%) at Queens (column 5).

 

A's are generally converted to 3.9s, but, at some schools they are only a 3.8 (i.e. York and Manitoba in Column 9). However, I'm not sure about the correctness of my last statement. Can anyone confirm how the schools in Column 9 get treated by OLSAS???

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A's are generally converted to 3.9s, but, at some schools they are only a 3.8 (i.e. York and Manitoba in Column 9). However, I'm not sure about the correctness of my last statement. Can anyone confirm how the schools in Column 9 get treated by OLSAS???

I think you have it right with regard to column 9. York doesn't give out minus grades, so the value of an A there has to be adjusted appropriately.

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Posted 09 May 2011 - 08:02 PM

8idl, on 09 May 2011 - 07:48 PM, said:

I have a feeling this person is calculating their GPA wrong if an 85 average turns into a 4.0...

 

 

Depends on how they got the 85% I guess. If they have a percentage GPA, yeah, they are. However, in many faculties, an 85-89% in a course gives you an A, and an A is a 4.0 generally.

 

 

Okay, I only skimmed some of the above posters, so forgive me if I repeat something another poster said.

 

Talking from my undergrad experience, U of T calculates an 85% as a 4.0 (see here) although that may be the case that OLSAS does not. U of T, however, does not calculate your GPA via your percentage average.

 

Let me give you an example. Take the following marks:

 

84

90

80

87

84

 

They average to equal 85% on the dot.

 

The GPA on the transcript, however, is not 4.0. Instead every mark is converted based on the "U of T Guide" (see here), and a GPA is calculated. See below:

 

84 = 3.7

90 = 4.0

80 = 3.7

87 = 4.0

84 = 3.7

 

The GPA calculated from these grades ends up being 3.82.

 

The only way you can get a 4.0 GPA at U of T is if EVERY mark on your report card is above 85%. The average does not determine your GPA calculation.

 

 

 

That aside, I have no idea if you could get in U of T. I do recommend that you explain why you took extra years to complete your undergrad.

 

Good luck!

Edited by JusticeHopeful

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OP has a pretty decent chance, the only thing going against him/her is cgpa and the fact that the degree took 6 years to complete (which means not a full course load). I would say a 75% chance, but any labeling of chances in this way is arbitrary anyways.

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OP has a pretty decent chance, the only thing going against him/her is cgpa and the fact that the degree took 6 years to complete (which means not a full course load). I would say a 75% chance, but any labeling of chances in this way is arbitrary anyways.

 

 

The first 3 years of my degree I did take lighter course loads. And I also didn't do AS well comparably to now. I didn't do horribly though. I took a year off for financial reasons, but my last 2 years I took full course loads, and I will be graduating actually, with extra credits. I know law schools that look at your best 3 or best 2 years, also look at your entire transcript as well. How much would the lighter course loads affect my chances? And other than UofT, if the law school looks at my best/last two years, and the lighter course loads aren't included in that, how much would they still matter? Also, would taking extra credits or a longer time to graduate affect my chances at law school(s), especially UofT law?

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