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UTorontoLit

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  1. While I don't disagree with the suggestion that not all top students want to go to NYC, I would say that a huge proportion of those who "don't want to go to NYC" don't want to go because they don't think they have the grades to get there. I say this as someone who "didn't want to go" after one semester, but then suddenly did once I got better grades in the next term. I know anecdotally that many people have similar stories. I would put the proportions more at 23/100 than I would 23/50.
  2. In undergrad I commuted from Coquitlam and Maple Ridge before the skytrain went out that far... it was horrendous. It's not that bad now from Coquitlam, but it's still easily about an hour. It also depends on whether you plan on taking the West Coast Express. That makes things way faster. When I commuted from Maple Ridge to downtown for work it took me only about 35-40 mins with the WCE. And yes, the commute definitely impacted my relationships with peers and professors. But again, this was in undergrad.
  3. Sticking your head in the sand to study incessantly will unlikely make you do any better. You can read the same case 3+ times, memorizing all of its details, but still bomb a relevant exam question. To that end, learn to study efficiently and spend your excess time making and hanging out with friends to the extent practicable. This helps with your sanity, performance, and future career success. On the performance front, part of the reason over-studying alone isn't helpful is because you probably won't notice your own blind spots - but your brilliant friends will. Your friends are a huge resource, and you are a resource to them. Study together, and you'll likely all do better. On the career success front, as much as I hate to say it, law is often a game of "who do you know" and "who likes you." Going into the recruit, firms want to see that you know how to socialize with them. Your friends can also be valuable resources in getting into a firm. Or, down the road, your friends can be huge resources as regards referrals and co-ventures. This is obviously anecdotal, but in 1L, I stuck my head in the mud and never spoke to anyone. I studied alone incessantly. I did fine, but not exceptionally. In 2L, I started socializing more often and studying less. I actually did WAY better. To be clear, I did not STOP studying. However, I found myself studying more efficiently and getting better input from my friends.
  4. It's definitely possible to make the leap from Osgoode and McGill. The numbers honestly aren't great - usually only a handful of students per year compared to about 15-18 from U of T, but they are there. Other schools? Not so much. I've heard of a couple UBC students doing it, but the difficulty there is lack of proximity. At least Toronto is close geographically to New York. So, if you want to make the leap from a Canadian school to a New York firm, it's pretty much got to be one of McGill, Osgoode, or U of T, with U of T having the best odds by a fair margin.
  5. I'm not from Ontario, don't receive OSAP. And sure, much of my loan was interest-free. What does that matter? Why are you so interested in investigating my sources of funding?
  6. I received bursaries for law school, but bursaries only cover about 1/3 of tuition, and none of my costs of living. Also, received no bursaries in undergrad. I also wouldn't say that I'm "alienated" from my family. My family not being able to afford me does not = not having a fruitful relationship with my family.
  7. I echo the above comments. Coming back to Canada from a US law school is a huge pain in the ass, not just because of the NCA accreditation process, but because a lot of Canadian firms might look at your American schooling/work with skepticism. Obviously that depends on what you want to do - litigation, corporate, or tax. Corporate is pretty easy to jump back-and-forth the border with. Litigation much less so. Litigation in the US is VERY different from that in Canada, and only a very small number of Canadian firms will give you credit for your American litigation experience. To that end, it's much easier if you can get a foot in the door at a Canadian firm splitting your summer at a Canadian law school than having zero Canadian experience if you want to come back here. You do have to perform quite well at U of T to get an NY job. But it's getting easier, from what I can tell, because some firms (e.g., Paul, Weiss, and SullCrom) have started to build up large U of T cohorts comparable to those from local schools (Paul, Weiss took more U of T students than NYU or Columbia students last year; 11). US firms love to hire from schools that they're familiar with. So, while you do have to do well at U of T to get an NY job, if you put in a concerted effort to apply to a ton of US firms and write a good application, it's perfectly feasible. Having done the leap, I'd be happy to tell you more if you're interested. Feel free to message me.
  8. It's not always a choice, mate. I got kicked out at 19 because my dad couldn't afford to have me. And while it was a big hard to get back on my feet that young, it really wasn't that hard once I knew what I was doing. I paid my entire way through undergrad and law school, tuition and rent, on my own income and government debt. And I'm nowhere near six figure debt. How did I make it work? I worked my ass off at six different jobs in between getting thrown out and today. I spent my money wisely. It's really difficult, but feasible.
  9. I cannot speak directly to this, but I will tell you right now, the people I know who applied to NY were at the top of our class. I think I only know one person who had borderline grades who applied to NY. I don't necessarily think it's because fewer Osgoode people apply. The class is much bigger there, and I know lots of Osgoode folks who applied to NY. I think it has more to do with the firms in question. The NY firms that hire Canadians are typically those who already have Canadians - especially those which have Canadian partners. The big hirers, like Paul, Weiss, Davis Polk, and SullCrom, have a LOT of U of T people already, so they tend to hire more U of T people. There aren't that many NY firms with big Osgoode cohorts. So to that extent, it isn't even necessarily about grades, so much as it is about current representation. NY firms like building up their ranks with the schools that are already there. To that end, I think you'd have a better shot at NY coming from U of T. But again, that doesn't mean you'd have NO shot at Osgoode. I know people from Osgoode who made it. I just know fewer of them, especially at the hiring level. You also need to think about WHICH NY firm you want, if any. They are actually quite different. So, if one of the Osgoode-hiring NY firms doesn't have a culture you like, I honestly think that should enter your calculus.
  10. I'm frankly shocked you were waitlisted with these stats. They're slightly better than mine, and I got into U of T first round of admissions. Did you have poor EC's, work experience, and/or personal narrative? I ask because I cannot see you sitting on the waitlist for long with those pure numbers. As per BigLaw, I echo many of the comments above about how, no matter where you go, you're going to have to do quite well to get onto Bay or NY. If your ultimate goal is NY, you have a better shot at U of T, but still, only about 12 people in my year got into NY firms. You'll need about 9-10 Hs in your first two semesters to get a NY job in most cases. A few Osgoode students get to NY firms too, but the numbers are not quite as good. For example, Paul, Weiss seems to take the most Canadians, but last year they took 11 U of T, 1 Osgoode (obviously there are other firms at which Osgoode does better, with Sidley Austin coming to mind). If your goal is Bay Street though, I wouldn't worry about going to Osgoode whatsoever. Osgoode does great on Bay Street, even if the numbers aren't sterling overall (they aren't sterling at either school). Some Bay Street firms LOVE Osgoode (Davies comes to mind). I've got a lot of experience with both the NY and TO recruit, so if you have any questions, feel free to reach out.
  11. Don't come to U of T to do IP. All our IP profs are economists, and there are only a couple of them. That's not to say that economists can't do IP, but most of them avoid patents like the plague, and my impression is that you're probably more interested in patents than TM and CR. Osgoode has some great IP profs for varieties of IP. Professor Vaver comes to mind. Osgoode also has a dedicated IP LLM, so they have a pretty strong institutional commitment to the field. Ottawa is well-placed for specific types of IP firms. There are a lot of big IP players with offices in Ottawa (S&B, Osler, etc.). Jeremy de Beer is also quite a well-respected IP prof. All that is to say, you can get a great IP education at Ottawa and Osgoode for way cheaper than U of T. That said, if you want to do Bay Street IP, you'll probably have an easier time at U of T just because of proximity and how well the infrastructure is set up at the school to get to firms like Osler, Bennett Jones, Torys, etc. You can probably get there just fine from Osgoode too, though.
  12. As someone whose paying their own tuition at U of T, I think it important that you know that the face price tag at U of T is misleading. I only paid $12,000 this year. I can't guarantee that's all you'd pay, but the tuition arbitrage only matters for students who can afford to pay U of T tuition.
  13. I wasn't trying to "communicate" any sort of message about how valuable RA experience is. Lay off the high horse. I was literally talking about my job, which I did, and got a good job from thereafter. What a ridiculous and unfounded character attack.
  14. I was devastated when I didn't get a 1L firm job, thinking it would seriously damage my career. Boy was I wrong. I worked as an RA to a couple profs. Not the most prestigious way to spend my summer. I had zero problem getting a great job this year, nor did one of my friends who had no job last summer. What you do in your 1L summer means something I suppose, but not much. What matters most is that you keep trudging on with your co-curriculars and trying to get the best grades possible. Listen to all the little things upper years and the career office tell you need to do to get firms' attention and do them. The 1L recruit means very little for your career.
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