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UpAboveIt715

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UpAboveIt715 last won the day on May 31 2016

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  1. I made the transition. One problem that you are going to run into is that a lot of lawyers are ignorant with regards to moving from one jurisdiction to the next. You probably won't get a lot of interest until you have become a member of the LSO so be sure to do that sooner rather than later. In terms of timing, I think it really depends on the practice are; however, I'd strongly encourage you to try to make the move between the June call to the bar. I believe half of all students in Ontario become lawyers without jobs, so around June there'll be a ton of lawyers looking for work. You are probably best to get ahead of that.
  2. I would like to briefly touch upon working as a sole-practitioner doing real estate straight out of articling. As a general rule, I think that you SHOULD NOT become a sole-practitioner straight out of articling if you have other options. In the world of lawyering, there’s a lot to know and the only know to know it all is through experience and it’s very nice to have someone who knows what they are doing sheltering you. With that said, the market is what the market is and, sometimes, you just have to go for it. I won’t bore you with my whole biography, but I had a hard time finding a job as a lawyer straight out of articling, so I rented an office from another firm for $1000.00 per month. For the most part, I really didn’t know what I was doing, but the other lawyers in the office were nice enough to show me a few things which was fantastic. It was a very rough road during my first year as I basically made no money and had to get a bit more in debt; however, it all worked out as now I am working at a two lawyer firm and have what I consider to be a very good practice when compared to others in my area. If you are going to work as a real estate lawyer straight out of law school with limited knowledge, you really should start by reading the following two books (in order): https://www.emond.ca/ontario-residential-real-estate-for-practitioners-p.html (very good intro book, you could probably read through the entire thing in a weekend, lots of charts, ect) https://store.lexisnexis.ca/en/categories/shop-by-jurisdiction/ontario-10/real-estate-practice-in-ontario-9th-edition-skusku-cad-00881/details (also a bit of an intro book but a bit more in depth. This’ll take you more than a weekend to read. FWIW, I don’t know of a single lawyer practicing in the realm of residential real estate who does not own this book) After those two books have been read, you are going to want to do a few things: 1. Find a lawyer mentor in the area. The best case scenario would be to rent an office from another lawyer who doesn’t mind helping you from time to time, but if you cannot find that, at least find 1-2 lawyers who’ll be nice enough to take your call; 2. Find a good clerk – if you are starting out, you probably won’t have the money to hire a full time clerk, but you should at least start out by getting a company that charges you per file (normally you’re looking at $250 – 300 per file); a. In theory, you could do this without a clerk or a company. However, once your practice starts to take off, you’re going to be wasting a lot of time on Teraview that you could spend out there marketing and meeting with clients 3. Get someone to do your title searches. If you hire a law clerk company, they’ll probably have someone to do all of that for you. However, you absolutely need a title searcher; 4. Get a strong relationship with a title insurance company. As a general rule, your title insurance company of choice can be one of your best resources to help you learn and grow as they tend to have a lot of free seminars and reading material. As a previous poster said, acting as a real estate solicitor involves a lot of time spent marketing with agents and other people. However, before you start marketing, it is very important that you know your limitations. As a general rule, if you are just starting out, for the first month or two, I would try to limit my transactions to only freehold subdivision transactions as you get used to all of the different systems. In other words, Under no circumstances, would I consider doing any of the following: · Commercial Real Estate; · Commercial Leasing; · Assignments; · Rural Properties; · Vacant Land I would also try my best to avoid: · Condos; · New build purchases Some people may disagree with me, but I am a firm believer that you should walk before you can crawl, but all of the above come with a whole host of additional considerations and lots of liability if you do it wrong. Remember, if you get successfully sued, LAWPRO is taking a $5000.00 deductible and then adding an extra $5000.00 on you premiums every year for the next 5 years so be careful. As a previous poster has said, one thing that sucks about doing real estate is that it can be quite competitive RE fees. What’s more, the advertising rules for real estate lawyers are very strict. As a general rule, the margins in real estate are quite low when compared to other areas of law. However, the ‘benefit’ of real estate is that it’s a tremendous way to bring about business in other areas. For example, most people ONLY deal with lawyers when they buy or sell their home. When a client comes in to see me for a real estate matter, I usually try to sell them on doing a will and power of attorney with me as well. Using some rough estimates, my margins for real estate is about 30%; however, my margins for wills and estates is about 70%. I’d argue that most of my will clients come from my real estate clients, so those cheap fees on the real estate turn into a lot of money in other areas. With that said, you are not going to get that repeat business if you offer up subpar service. In summary, real estate is great but don’t walk before you can crawl. Take your time to learn slowly because it’s very easy to end up with a LAWPRO claim in the event that you miss something – and if you don’t know what you are doing, it is very easy to miss something.
  3. ...everytime I read that listserv I leave thinking "oh boy, looks like everyone's lawpro premiums are about to go up..."
  4. In order to transfer to SK to Ontario, I needed to be an active lawyer. Given the fact that I was not an active lawyer in SK at the time of my transfer, this was a very expensive undertaking (I needed to pay for 6 months of fees and insurance that was not refunded to me). It was worth it, but I was definitely broke for a good couple of months afterward.
  5. It depends on what they did. I won't go into specifics, but I've known a number of lawyers who were trained by an attorney with the worst reputation in Canada and they have all turned out to be fantastic. In fact, in the city where that lawyer works, it's commonly known that if you can survive that firm, you're great and a lot of people line up to hire lawyers who went through their program.
  6. Just try your best and be nice to everyone. I was very unqualified for my first law job and, for my first 2 months, it was quite obvious. However, I tried my best and treated everyone with respect. There were reasons to get rid of me because I was not nearly as qualified for the job as they would have liked. However, they liked me and saw something in me and didn't give up. Now, I know what I am doing and am a great addition to the team. If you go in with that attitude, I'm sure the same will be true for you.
  7. What area are you currently practising?
  8. I believe the lsuc will allow you to work around that if you're in the process of becoming a member. However, the OP will have to call them to confirm. I transferred into Ontario and while it's costly, it's not that big of a deal. All you really need to do is pay them some money and wait for.l the next call to the bar.
  9. There are lots of jobs in law. Just try your best during articles and, if it doesn't work out, worry about what to do then. If you don't get hired back, you will be unemployed for a period of time. I all but guarantee that. However, if you are persistent, you'll find something to jump to before long. The only people I know who went unemployed post articles were people who had something seriously wrong with them or people who were really lazy in their job search. Not to overgeneralize, but one problem people who article at big firms have who don't get hired back is that they are not used to the dog fight of finding a job. A lot of them went from high school to uni to law school to OCIs to $1450.00 per week at big law. They are not used to looking for a job in an unstructured environment and can have difficulty adjusting (major overgeneralization, I know). However, looking for a job isn't rocket science: Apply for jobs as they come up; Network as best you can (go to conferences and what not) Don't be weird And you'll be fine. But right now, as others have said, don't worry about life after articles. Just focus on getting through articles. Don't think about your job as a first year associate until Feb at the latest. Just survive for now and good luck (honestly though, it doesn't sound like you need it).
  10. +1 I'd take my clerk over a recently graduated law student any day of the week. Law students are fucking useless.
  11. I know that your search has come to an end, but I thought I'd chime in anyways. I've worked at three firms in my young career, and I will share how I got all of those jobs below. Job 1 During my first year of law school, I asked a bunch of lawyers for coffee solely for advice; One of those lawyers said "We don't take articling students, but we really like you. Keep in touch and when you get called, I'd love to hire you" I did just that and began working at his firm shortly after getting called Job 2 Graduated law school without articles; To be perfectly honest, I graduated from law school without articles solely because I didn't start my search until after I graduated; I e-mailed about 100 firms with a standard introduction e-mail: "Hi, my name is UpAboveIt, and I'm looking for articles, please give me a job, k, thanks bye" I did not include a CV with my e-mail I did this for about 1 hour a day, every day for 6 weeks and eventually got multiple offers Approx 80% ignored me; 15% wrote me back saying "Not looking, but we'll keep your information on file if something comes up" Believe it or not, I actually had two firms contact me 6 months after my initial e-mail asking me if I was still looking 5% contacted me asking for more information and, from that 5%, I got a few offers A couple of older lawyers said that they didn't think it was appropriate to ask for a job via e-mail, but I didn't think much of their response Job 3 Met with some lawyers to go for coffee for solely networking purposes; I was working at the time and had no desire to leave my firm, I was simply looking for referrals; Got along with one of the lawyers and they offered me a job General Points Your approach should vary based on where you are in your search, if you need a job now, I'd be direct. In my opinion, I think it looks really unprofessional to ask a lawyer for coffee only to write them the next day asking for a job; I did this a couple of times and the response is always negative; As someone who works as a lawyer now, if a student did this to me I'd be agitated as well However, I don't think that you should wait until you need a job to begin your search; You should always be networking and looking to expand upon your social circle; If you are a law student, you should set a goal to go out for coffee with one different lawyer per month solely for informational purposes; Firstly, it is beneficial to get tips from people who are in the trenches; Secondly, when the time comes to hire someone, I do think that they are going to be more receptive to hire someone who they've known for a period of time than just some random CV: Small firms are not the same as big firms Small firms have a harder time predicting their work flow; To overgeneralize, big firms are better able to predict how much manpower they are going to need 12 months in advance than smaller firms; Furthermore, since bigger firms have a number of lawyers working for them, they are better able to absorb the salary of the students if their predictions are off; In contrast, smaller firms can't always predict their work load from month to month and, since they have less lawyers, they are less able to absorb the salary of a student if they are less busy than they initially thought; For instance, in the world of family law, all it takes is one or more file going to trial to cause the need for extra bodies to rise If you keep in touch with people, when an opening comes up, they might just write you to say 'Hey, want to work here' because it is easier for them to just hire you than it is to do a whole search GOOD LUCK
  12. I've been a lawyer for two years and my firm asked me to change a light bulb today because I'm the tallest person in the office instead of hiring someone to come in to fix it, should I quit because of this? I'm a lawyer goddamnit and have me do anything that isn't taking full advantage of my brilliant mind is a waste of my time.
  13. I graduated law school in dire need of cash. I also graduated law school without an articling position. Due to a NEED for money, I left law school to work a manual labour type job until I found a paid position. The main problem that I have with the LPP is that it does not take people such as myself into consideration. From what I’ve been told, it’s virtually impossible to work while doing the LPP. In contrast, if you are articling for free, you can set up ground rules from day one, for instance: 1. I must leave at 5:00pm to go to my evening job; AND 2. I must not have work on the weekends as I need to go to my other job
  14. What's the difference between a lawyers 'opinion' on a legal matter and 'legal advice'?
  15. I know the market well, feel free to send me a pm. But transferring is easy, you just pay 1500 and fill out some forms. Unlike Ontario, you are called once you sign your scrolls. The cool thing about getting called in Sk is that there have only been about 6000 lawyers in the entire province so every signature is in one book.
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