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TheGeneral

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  1. Ok, so I came to this site by accident when looking for some info on various Canadian law schools. However, I must say, I am not sure this site serves much of a useful purpose, and is nothing more than another internet reddit discussion board on the rather mundane subject of law school admissions/how to become a lawyer. Which leads me to questions for long term posters: 1. Why do you post here? What are your motivations? There are users on here who have posted nearly every day, for a decade. Why? 2. The average typing speed is 40 WPM. Some posts/responses have exceeded 500 words. So that's nearly 13 minutes of your day for replying/responding to one post, -not including reading it or other threads. Furthermore, some of you have more than one post/reply per day. Also, as aforementioned, some of you post/reply everyday for 7 days a week. So that's 1.5 hours per week minimum, and about 78 hours per year. So essentially three full days on this website per year, or 780 hours per decade which equates to more than a month of your life you will never get back. Why? 3. Don't you get bored with the same topic and the same questions like "Chances", or "Grades"? 4. How come you don't use the time you use on this website to spend with your family, friends, your work, or hobbies? I am sure I will hear responses like you are doing a public service, educating the public, etc, but this makes no sense. Why not? Simply because lawyers or law students can do this better with other avenues, such as legal clinics, or educational seminars. Time is precious friends. Every minute that goes by is a minute you will not get back. The average age of death in Canada is 82.25 years. Why waste time on this website?
  2. Ahh youth rage. So prevalent in this day in age.
  3. That's good for you, but not good for the legal consumer. Hence, the reason there has been more and more opportunities for foreign law grads over time. Everyday the monopoly of the traditionalists is being broken by foreign law graduates immigrating to Canada. The 'jurisdictions' are becoming more and more reciprocal. There was a time when nurses and teachers could not practice outside their 'home' provinces. Now they have the freedom to work in any province due to reciprocal licensing processes. Likewise, the elitism of the law profession is breaking down. The democratization of the profession is happening. The Federation of Law Societies of Canada is breaking down walls, not putting them up. I get that many on here like to think they are special, like to think they are smarter than the average Joe Schmo because they view law as a ticket to the big leagues and prestigious. It's not true as much anymore. There has been rampant grade inflation in Canadian universities, degrees have not been worth the paper they have been printed on since probably the 1970's and LSAT scores can be prepped for by taking prep courses. Everyone knows this. There are more and more available seats in law schools everywhere. With enough time and effort, anyone can become a lawyer in Canada, either from the frontdoor (Canadian law schools) or the backdoor (foreign). The best time to be a lawyer was in the 70's and 80's. That was the golden era. Many people here think and believe that law is still like that time. Make partner, and have a big old oak desk. Smoke a cigar like the Monopoly guy. Corner office in a high rise. Have cocktails in the afternoon. 100K salary. They don't see the financial stresses, the demanding clients, the high rates of divorce, mental health issues, and illness such as heart attack, or cancer. I'm an older person, who is on the fence about learning law later in life. I like the subject. I truly do from an intellectual perspective. But I have lived and worked a long life, to know that a lot of youngsters here have a totally misguided view about the law.
  4. The reason you the great UBC law student get jealous is because the person who went to Bond with a lower GPA has the same or better outcome than you. They become a lawyer in Canada just as you did with supposed less merit. That is why many on here trash foreign lawyers/schools. They equate getting into law school with intelligence and hard work, so when someone gets in through the back door they whine.
  5. Not really, law still is based on precedent and the adversarial process not much different than half a century ago. One can really tell on this site just how jealous are the traditional path advocates of others who have chosen a different path. Let me tell you the truth. In regards of the entire world, Canada does not matter at all except being the little brother to the United States. The Bar Call that matter most is New York, and the Solicitors Roll which matters most is England and Wales. Why? Because New York and London are centers of international trade. The New York Bar is essentially open to anyone with a law degree, and England and Wales if you study in the UK you are eligible to do the LPC rather easily. You can also train as Legal Executive. Let's remember where common law originated. It wasn't Canada. A lot of people commenting here don't think internationally and have a one track mind. In the QS rankings, only 1 Canadian university -U of T is in the top 25 (at 20). The University of Queensland beats UBC. Out of 200 international universities, UVic is second from the bottom. Take a look here: https://www.topuniversities.com/university-rankings/university-subject-rankings/2020/law-legal-studies I am glad I travel frequently out of Canada, because people in Canada are so narrow minded thinking Canada is the best country in the world for everything, and all other countries are impoverished, and backwaters etc who look up to Canada. However, deep down we Canadians know Canada is nothing without America at our Southern border. If the USA was Mexico, Canada would be vastly different. We have no sports teams that can compete internationally except Hockey, we have no identifiable 'Canadian' foods except Tim Hortons, no real culture as we are a hodge podge of immigrants, and we do not have the best education anymore (again see above). In fact all education in Canada is going down due to it being Constructionist and focused on SJW ism -focusing on feelings not facts. In sum going abroad is not a bad move as many posters contend. It's smart.
  6. Why wait and see BlockedQuebecois? Why do you not aspire to do those things?
  7. Right, my mistake. I associated that name with Detective Taggert from Beverly Hills Cop.
  8. Whose to say the OP won't excel in law school abroad? There have been several Canadians now who have gone abroad now and become lawyers in Canada. Just a basic google search will reveal plenty of lawyers who got their legal educations abroad.
  9. All I am saying is there are lots of lawyers in Canada who go their training elsewhere. The world is truly global, and Canada is not the be all and end all for legal education. If the OP wants to take the Hogg route, I see no problem with it.
  10. Are you a student or practicing lawyer Taggert?
  11. Last I checked the top Constitutional guy in Canada, Peter Hogg was a lawyer from New Zealand. How many people know of him?
  12. OK everyone, here is a question that has been on my mind for a while. Do you think an attractive person will have better chances in securing employment in the legal field? Take for instance articling. Let's suppose an attractive 27 year old female applies to a downtown Toronto office Baystreet firm and interviews in a nice H&M office blouse, skirt and Jimmy Choo shoes with a Gucci Bag. Then comes in an overweight guy with a triple chin who wears a the cheapest Moores suit. Now let's suppose all other things are equal in that the two candidates are the same age, same university, same GPA, same answers to the interviewer, same level of confidence. Do you think the lady would likely get the job? How much does appearance matter for success? Should we work on our appearance to increase our chances of employment? What is the "image of success" for a lawyer in your mind?
  13. There are a plenty of people who have gone abroad to Australia, the UK, and the US with low GPA's then done well on return to Canada and have been successful in articling and setting up a practice. In Canada, maybe law schools are a bit more selective and competitive. You can do an accelerated law degree in 2 years abroad, do the NCAs in a year, and article or LPP for a year after that. GPA is not as much of an issue for foreign schools as is the ability to pay. Also, Canada's legal market is really small compared to the USA and UK for example, so you do not lose much by going abroad.
  14. So while my previous post was about 'Needing to Be Rich to Practice Law", my follow up discussion is about Lawyer Midlife Reflections and Prospering Post Covid-19. So why have I been posting these topics? Well, recently I have been talking with a middle age person whose legal career has not exactly flourished, is questioning aspects about their life, and wondering the direction to take. I very much like talking with this person, as I feel they tell me like it is if I pursue law. First off, my friend never really practiced law other than a student-at-law. They were called to a Canadian Bar some time ago, but did not practice because they said as a law student their work was unpaid, and at the end of the process simply could not continue to 'set up shop'. In fact, they said they were so short of cash at the end of process that they could not stay in that city anymore because they could not afford even half a months rent. So that put off looking for any kind of employed legal career. Now my friend does not believe in taking on debt, and so my friend went to work in another job in another city and has been there a number of years now. They said they were fortunate to get Called without taking on any debts, but stated financially it was stressful. Now my friend has a family, is middle age, and their non-law job has been affected by Covid-19 in that it will no longer exist in a few months. As my friend now has to adapt, they were telling me that they were considering being in employed in 'Driving' type jobs as those seem plentiful across the country and in-demand and seem less competitive than law related careers or the job they are currently in now, which is in a corporation dealing with demanding clients/customers. My friend is an introvert by nature and said they do not want to deal with people problems anymore so is thinking of driving jobs because they believe it will give them more free time to spend with family and pursue hobbies and work alone. My friend has said people seem shocked that they are even thinking this way. My friend however, said that their sole goal with work is to save enough money to so they can get about $4000 in monthly passive income, and figures this can be done with about $300,000, which they think can be obtained in 3-4 years. My friend has stated they just want a basic small townhouse, a basic Kia car, and the ability to take 1-2 vacations per year. They also said they want to take up hobbies like Brazillian Jiu Jitsu, scuba diving, and focus on their music. They said since the quarantine they have been watching a lot of MMA and Grappling videos of the Gracie family and want to get into shape. They said they have been listening to a lot of Jordan Peterson and Joe Rogan. So my question to all of you, is do you think my friend is having a midlife questioning? Do you think their ideas to prosper post covid are practical?
  15. Hello Everyone, This is my first time posting in this forum. I have been interested in pursuing law for some time. However, the costs seem insurmountable for a person of modest means. In Canada, the cost of an undergraduate degree is approximately $50,000 for four years if you include living expenses, followed by an LSAT test of about $200, followed by an undergraduate 3-year JD which, at the cheapest law school, is about $30K tuition for three years with cheap living costs of about $25,000 a year. That's just to get an undergraduate law degree of course. So that is about $105,000. Then, if you want to get a law licence, in a place like Ontario, you are looking at $160 application fee, $1500 for Barrister and Solicitor Exams, a $2800 Articling Fee, and a $250 dollar Call to the Bar Fee. If you rent robes to get called to the Bar, that's like $200 dollars for the occasion, so your bill is now over $110,000 for becoming a Lawyer. Ok, now lets say you've gotten to that point of being a Lawyer. Let's say you live in Ottawa or Toronto as benchmark cities. Before even practicing your going to need room and board. So in Ottawa, according to a google search, the average rent is $1100 a month, while Toronto would likely be a bit more, let's say $1500. Ok, you've got rent squared away, and now you just have to worry about utilities which lets say are about $300 monthly. Food lets say $500 monthly. This is all assuming you are a single person with no dependents. So that is your budget for living. Now let's say you want to set up practice. According to the LSO, your Lawyer Fee for practicing is over $2300. Now your set to work right? Not so fast, you need insurance in case you get sued. That's approximately another $3000. We have not added everything up in a while, so that brings the total to approximately, $117,600. Now your pretty much all set to start work and earning the big bucks right and start paying down that debt? Well now you have to make a choice. Private Practice, or Employed lawyer. Private practice has its own hurdles with deciding practice area, deciding if you need staff, an office, PC law, a trust account, business loan etc, whereas an employed lawyer you start to look at salaries. Let's look at salaries via google. This is what Google says: "The average Lawyer salary in Canada is $105,669 per year or $54.19 per hour. Entry level positions start at $50,500 per year while most experienced workers make up to $142,676 per year." Ok, so for big salaries you need to put in some time, I get it. However, I question is it worth it anymore compared to say Nurses? This is what Google says for Nurses: "The average Nurse salary in Canada is $78,546 per year or $40.28 per hour. Entry level positions start at $41,396 per year while most experienced workers make up to $95,346 per year." It also seems really competitive to get a position as a lawyer when compared to other jobs in demand like say, Truck Driver. Here is what Google says about Truck drivers in Canada: "The average Truck Driver salary in Canada is $48,750 per year or $25 per hour. Entry level positions start at $34,125 per year while most experienced workers make up to $82,875 per year." So my question to all of you is, in this day and age, is it still worth it to pursue the practice of law, or would it be simpler to just become a Nurse or Truck driver? Is it a Profession for the Rich? What say you?
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