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wtamow

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  1. https://precedentjd.com/summer-job-watch/bay-street-summer-job-numbers/ Some numbers are starting to trickle in...!
  2. In the context of the IP recruit, some firms interviewed like ~20-60 students and did send out rejection letters (all the ones who rejected me did, the day after call day). So either OP fell through the cracks or interviewed at a firm that is quite rude.
  3. I disagree with this as someone who did another region’s recruit with tenuous ties. It helped me prepare for 2L OCIs very well and I don’t think it hurt in anyway except for maybe time consumption.
  4. Move them towards the August month like NY. Why are they in the middle of 2L?
  5. Okay, I did both and I think 2L was a lot harder for the following reasons. 1) Timing. It’s one of the last formal recruits before articling. In 1L, it’s emphasized that only a small % of students get jobs, and that you have far more opportunities in 2L. In 2L, it feels a lot more real because some employers don’t frequently employ past the 2L recruit. So the sense of urgency becomes deeper and you realize “oh man, if [X] doesn’t hire me now, I might never work there.” For a lot of students in the 1L and NY recruit, it’s easy to shrug it off because “there’s always the infamous 2L OCI process after.” But once you’re at the 2L OCI process, you feel like there might not be any luck after and you might not be interested in a lot of the articling recruit firms. The 2L OCIs are the last large recruit for a lot of these firms. In 1L there’s also opportunities to get your grades up and try again next year. In 2L, you’re kind of stuck for most firms. 2) More rejection. The 2L recruit is longer in length and due to the sheer number of firms participating, you’re encountering more rejection or more mixed signals to navigate. Even if you’re a hot commodity, it’s going to suck more than the 1L recruit because you will be pulled in different directions and have to navigate what the right fit is. 3) More students participating. Odds are lower in the 1L recruit but there’s generally less people participating in the first place. During the 2L in-firm week everywhere I went on Bay St was littered with 2L students. I couldn’t enter a coffee shop without hearing 2L chatter. I got my hair done twice and every single time the salon was filled with interviewees and interviewers. It was pretty incredible. But this also adds to the stress in a way, because it makes the recruit feel like a bigger deal. 4) The aftermath. After 1L, only a handful of students have jobs. There isn’t chatter throughout the halls about who got what because most people are unemployed. During 2L, you kind of cannot run away from it. At many schools, 1/3 to 1/2 of the class is employed and talking about it actively. That makes it a lot harder to just get over it and move on as well. I could go on forever. I honestly feel very fortunate that I got a job in the process but I wouldn’t want to do it again. The 1L recruit was easier and getting a job informally was easier, in my opinion.
  6. BQ did you do the 2L OCI process and in-firms? Because you come from a perspective of someone who didn’t have to do it.
  7. My partner was basically helping me out during OCIs and in-firms. I think OCIs themselves were fine but they said that in-firms basically took five years off of their life. There is no reason to force students to make important life decisions in only three days. It makes it unbelievably stressful. In the US, the top firms do it much differently in terms of time scale for in-firms and I think that makes the process easier emotionally. Also for context, I did the non-organized recruit after 1L last year. It was time intensive (checking job sites, going to many more random interviews) but definitely not as difficult as the in-firm process.
  8. I don’t think that’s what they are saying at all. They are not denigrating people who seek big law jobs. They’re saying a lot of advice in this thread is geared towards those people who may have been seeking big law positions and are being told that other options exist. I don’t think OP actually has the sentiment that their feelings are more valid than a person who really wanted big law. They’re just saying that a lot of the advice in this thread isn’t helpful because it’s geared towards only people who were interested in the first place. I agree with OP, it’s not helpful advice to say “just look into another field there’s more out there” or “you can find what you’re looking for off of bay” to someone interested in a niche area of law like union-side labour. These positions are hard to come by. They’re rare. They do seem to prefer homegrown lawyers. Someone interested in big law has numerous amounts of opportunities left to end up at a larger firm (maybe not a seven sister but definitely a larger firm). Someone in OP’s shoes has much fewer opportunities to just lateral in. It’s just based on pure numbers. (However, I disagree that they will have an issue finding union-side work considering they are an impressive candidate.)
  9. As someone who took a position at a firm like the one you described over a large full service firm that I initially thought I wanted, I cannot echo these sentiments enough. There’s more to life than a big name that makes the AM200 or whatever. For some people though, it’s a really good fit. But it’s not necessarily for each one of the 100-200 law students that graduate from every law school in Ontario each year. I know some people who ended up at large, full service firms who I see staying there for a very long time.
  10. I got an offer from the firm I said I would work at right after OCIing with them... so sometimes your original intuition is correct. I am emotionally exhausted from being pulled in like five different directions all week but super happy that I stuck to my guns.
  11. I have a joke planned let’s hope I don’t have my offer rescinded right away* *(let’s hope I get an offer)
  12. It’s not the support. The support is great. The problem is the pressure, which often comes from other students. It’s a bullpen of anxiety and needlessly high expectations. It’s not that U of T students are competitive, but they are extremely Bay St focused, to their own detriment. Some of the things you hear around the halls are literally insane: “I feel so bad for [student], he has to work at [non-seven sister firm] after graduating from U of T! That sucks!” 95% of students at other schools would probably die to work at said firm. I don’t think very many people want to admit that the whole vibe is “Bay St or bust” which results in people like Newfoundland who don’t even research other recruits outside of the OCI process and don’t even consider other options that might make them happy. How can you know for sure whether or not you want to work on Bay St, if you’ve never actually worked at a large full service firm before? Especially since the industry has a high attrition rate... and yet people like Newfoundland exist, I believe we all have a little bit of Newfoundland in us because of the general culture. I will say that this problem would be a lot easier solved if the CDO did offer more support in getting students to explore other options, I’m not sure what it’s like for government work but for more niche practice areas, it isn’t the best.
  13. Is it normal to be a little bit more nervous today lol
  14. Applications for WeirFoulds, Singleton Reynolds, Robins Appleby, Loopstra Nixon, and Blaney McMurty are all due between Nov 11-13
  15. There is a mini recruit after this. About four or five incredibly respectable mid-size firms recruit right after OCIs are done. The applications start being accepted basically on the seventh and some people who Newfoundland goes to school with found positions that way after striking out in the recruit. So I would say wait until at least the end of the week. Honestly @Newfoundland, just keep going. I don’t even want to post how many interviews I’ve done these past two years as practice for this, because it’s embarrassing, but it probably rivals the number of interviews people like Uriel have conducted. It gets easier after each one and you sort of stop taking the process as neurotically and learn to just be yourself after a while and figure out what is right for you. Also, there is real psychology behind being desensitized to rejection... it basically changes you as a person. If I don’t get a job tomorrow night, I’m sure the initial feelings will suck, but there are still more interviews over the next two years. You’ve been exposed to interviews at this point and for your next set of interviews (which will occur sooner than you think!) you will have a leg up on the very many people who didn’t even get to the OCI or in-firm stage of this process, and that is meaningful by itself.
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