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About wtamow

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  1. This makes it pretty easy to identify who he is and which firm he’s at. I don’t know if thats supposed to be common knowledge.
  2. No, that was Newfoundland. 🤣 (And also, you'd probably be surprised at how many others I've heard espouse the same sentiments.)
  3. Here in the real world, there are about a hundred more important qualities that come into consideration when choosing a job besides "is this firm a Seven Sister?" and "is this firm on Bay St?" I understand that this may be lost on insecure law students who use this type of condescension as a coping mechanism... Some things people might value more: specialization in a niche practice area, a shorter commute to their family home, promotion of work-life balance, etc. The list goes on and on... I don't even know why I'm bothering to write this because it seems so obvious to me but I'm biting. Is it hard to imagine that someone from Etobicoke may want to stay in Etobicoke? If you're planning on having a couple kids, you usually need a house. Most junior-level Bay St lawyers cannot afford a house in Downtown. Commuting is a strain on both your work and family life. Most people dislike commuting. Commuting from Etobicoke to Downtown toronto is particularly hell, if you've ever tried it. Why not just get started on your life ahead of time, rather than spending needless years downtown just because some law students think this is the way it is done? I have another scenario for you: someone had a job and a life before law school in Etobicoke. They want to be able to bring their previous connections into their practice via business development. It makes sense to start your practice in a firm in Etobicoke, stay there, and use the network of people in your community. Or you know, outside of these niche examples, maybe you just clicked best with the lawyers in Etobicoke. The vast majority of people lateral off of Bay St... you know this right? Probably upwards of 75% after 10 years... are gone... the fact that you're seriously sat here assuming that most people who start outside of Downtown want to lateral into a Bay St position if given the chance is seriously shortsighted and out of touch with reality. Maybe speak to some lawyers off of Bay St? I can think of a dozen I've met who wouldn't give up their positions for anything in the world. I've been living downtown for 3 years now. I go to school downtown. I have taken a job downtown that I picture myself staying at for a really long time. But honestly, it is my love of the firm that is keeping me downtown. They have a satellite office in one of my favorite, less glamorous Canadian cities and I would be lying if I said that I wasn't jealous about all of the lawyers who get to build their practices there. People raised outside of Toronto don't have the same level of attachment to Downtown Toronto. I'm just honestly really confused as to why any of this needs to be explained to a highly intelligent 2L. It seems like common sense and basic levels of emotional intelligence to me... like, you realize some people choose not to become Bay St corporate lawyers... just like how some people choose not to become lawyers at all?
  4. Is there any chance that articling increases as well (next year, etc.)?
  5. Honestly among the water bottles and reusable straws and speakers... I find the most useful are the little packs of mints that most firms give. I have a pack in every single purse/backpack I own.
  6. https://precedentjd.com/summer-job-watch/bay-street-summer-job-numbers/ Some numbers are starting to trickle in...!
  7. In the context of the IP recruit, some firms interviewed like ~20-60 students and did send out rejection letters (all the ones who rejected me did, the day after call day). So either OP fell through the cracks or interviewed at a firm that is quite rude.
  8. I disagree with this as someone who did another region’s recruit with tenuous ties. It helped me prepare for 2L OCIs very well and I don’t think it hurt in anyway except for maybe time consumption.
  9. Move them towards the August month like NY. Why are they in the middle of 2L?
  10. Okay, I did both and I think 2L was a lot harder for the following reasons. 1) Timing. It’s one of the last formal recruits before articling. In 1L, it’s emphasized that only a small % of students get jobs, and that you have far more opportunities in 2L. In 2L, it feels a lot more real because some employers don’t frequently employ past the 2L recruit. So the sense of urgency becomes deeper and you realize “oh man, if [X] doesn’t hire me now, I might never work there.” For a lot of students in the 1L and NY recruit, it’s easy to shrug it off because “there’s always the infamous 2L OCI process after.” But once you’re at the 2L OCI process, you feel like there might not be any luck after and you might not be interested in a lot of the articling recruit firms. The 2L OCIs are the last large recruit for a lot of these firms. In 1L there’s also opportunities to get your grades up and try again next year. In 2L, you’re kind of stuck for most firms. 2) More rejection. The 2L recruit is longer in length and due to the sheer number of firms participating, you’re encountering more rejection or more mixed signals to navigate. Even if you’re a hot commodity, it’s going to suck more than the 1L recruit because you will be pulled in different directions and have to navigate what the right fit is. 3) More students participating. Odds are lower in the 1L recruit but there’s generally less people participating in the first place. During the 2L in-firm week everywhere I went on Bay St was littered with 2L students. I couldn’t enter a coffee shop without hearing 2L chatter. I got my hair done twice and every single time the salon was filled with interviewees and interviewers. It was pretty incredible. But this also adds to the stress in a way, because it makes the recruit feel like a bigger deal. 4) The aftermath. After 1L, only a handful of students have jobs. There isn’t chatter throughout the halls about who got what because most people are unemployed. During 2L, you kind of cannot run away from it. At many schools, 1/3 to 1/2 of the class is employed and talking about it actively. That makes it a lot harder to just get over it and move on as well. I could go on forever. I honestly feel very fortunate that I got a job in the process but I wouldn’t want to do it again. The 1L recruit was easier and getting a job informally was easier, in my opinion.
  11. BQ did you do the 2L OCI process and in-firms? Because you come from a perspective of someone who didn’t have to do it.
  12. My partner was basically helping me out during OCIs and in-firms. I think OCIs themselves were fine but they said that in-firms basically took five years off of their life. There is no reason to force students to make important life decisions in only three days. It makes it unbelievably stressful. In the US, the top firms do it much differently in terms of time scale for in-firms and I think that makes the process easier emotionally. Also for context, I did the non-organized recruit after 1L last year. It was time intensive (checking job sites, going to many more random interviews) but definitely not as difficult as the in-firm process.
  13. I don’t think that’s what they are saying at all. They are not denigrating people who seek big law jobs. They’re saying a lot of advice in this thread is geared towards those people who may have been seeking big law positions and are being told that other options exist. I don’t think OP actually has the sentiment that their feelings are more valid than a person who really wanted big law. They’re just saying that a lot of the advice in this thread isn’t helpful because it’s geared towards only people who were interested in the first place. I agree with OP, it’s not helpful advice to say “just look into another field there’s more out there” or “you can find what you’re looking for off of bay” to someone interested in a niche area of law like union-side labour. These positions are hard to come by. They’re rare. They do seem to prefer homegrown lawyers. Someone interested in big law has numerous amounts of opportunities left to end up at a larger firm (maybe not a seven sister but definitely a larger firm). Someone in OP’s shoes has much fewer opportunities to just lateral in. It’s just based on pure numbers. (However, I disagree that they will have an issue finding union-side work considering they are an impressive candidate.)
  14. As someone who took a position at a firm like the one you described over a large full service firm that I initially thought I wanted, I cannot echo these sentiments enough. There’s more to life than a big name that makes the AM200 or whatever. For some people though, it’s a really good fit. But it’s not necessarily for each one of the 100-200 law students that graduate from every law school in Ontario each year. I know some people who ended up at large, full service firms who I see staying there for a very long time.
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