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  1. Yes, you will get a full refund of the $3164.00 if you sign up for the LPP and decide to leave by the end of the first in-person week in late August. You are still allowed to leave the program after that at any time, but you will not get any of your money back. However, I am not sure what your obligations would be to your placement employer if you land a position because they may have you sign on to something.
  2. I did the LPP. It's an 8 month program (Late August to Late April). You spend 3 weeks in-person at Ryerson (last week August, second week October, and mid-December) and the rest of the 4 months is done online via a 4 or 5 persons virtual law firm with a supervising lawyer. You have two supervising lawyers in the program. One from late August to mid-October and the second from mid-October to mid-December (when the classroom component ends). You complete work in many areas of law including business, administrative, criminal, civil litigation, wills and estates, real estate, family, construction, and professional responsibility. It is the best preparation if you want to be a sole practitioner or run your own law firm someday. You learn practice management skills and docket your hours daily. You do real legal work in the program (in a mock environment of course), so I think it could be better than a lot of articling positions out there that have you only doing research and fetching Joe's coffee. Personally, I think it's too many areas of law to cover in just a 4 month time period. And as someone who went to a Canadian law school and did practicals in law school, I didn't find this component to be as beneficial as others who never worked in a practical legal environment and wanted to brush up on their Canadian law in various areas. If you know that you want to do business or criminal for example, you might find it frustrating to have to learn family, admin, civil, etc. Now, let's come to the real juice that everyone wants to know about - the placements. In the first or second week of July, the LPP will release a list of summer employers you can apply to (around 40-60 positions total). They hold interviews in mid-August. These positions are harder to get because there are 230-250 students applying for them. The remaining positions will trickle out throughout August-December. Almost all of them are paid, but what the LPP doesn't tell you is that almost none hire back and they pay $15/hr - so minimum wage. There are in-house corporations, major banks, some Biglaw firms, government, general firms, soles, etc. Overall, I'd say 70-80% of the placements are paid, but most pay minimum wage or close to it. I did not have a problem with this though since it is only for 4 months (for most people at least). Here is the biggest catch all though with the LPP placements. You must accept all interviews and must accept your first offer received (they encourage you to apply broadly so that you can ensure you secure a position). So it does not matter if your dream job in New York comes calling a day later if Joe's General Firm in the middle of nowhere offers you a position first. Failure to abide by the LPP rules may result in serious consequences, including not being allowed to apply for further placement employers or completing the program. You can see the list of employers for the previous years here - http://www.lpp.ryerson.ca/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/LPP-Program-Overview-Candidate-Feb-2019b.pdf (pages 8-17). The best placements are highly competitive to land of course. This past year we had heavy competition for the financial institutions and corporations, government, and Blakes. The split in the program is around 60-40 - foreign law school graduates to Canadian law school graduates. Many of the foreign trained lawyers in the program have extensive work experience and credentials; there were law professors, MBA graduates and PhDs and many whom have practiced law in other countries prior to coming to Canada. The LPP is the path of least resistance for them (like how OCIs and articling recruit are the path of least resistance for Canadian law students). You often hear about Canadian law school grads in the program complaining about how the placement rate was not what they expected. It's because they were not competitive candidates, to begin with, and are now competing with foreign trained law graduates who have years of experience on them. Employers view the Canadian who went to Bond very differently from that person who was born and raised in the Middle East or Asia, went to law school there, and maybe even practiced law. I hustled and landed something pretty great in the program and was also hired back by my employer. Most of my peers were not so fortunate and most placement employers do not hire back their students because to them it's akin to a co-op program and the in-house teams are small and hire experienced lawyers generally (from the Biglaw firms). The program is what you make of it like anything else. I would definitely take a good, paid articling job over the LPP program (10-12 months articling is better than a 4 month placement in my strong opinion); however, the LPP program is a solid alternative if you want to take a chance and don't have good articling prospects. Anyone want further information about the program, feel free to PM me.
  3. As an Ontario law school graduate currently enrolled in the Ryerson LPP, I can tell you that the class is filled with extremely privileged and entitled Bond and UK law school graduates. They always make it a point to tell me that they went abroad for law school because the Canadian system sucks and makes it too hard for people to get in here. They talk about how the LSAT is a horrible test and they didn't even bother studying for it, many of them left to those schools without completing undergrad and think they got a head start over Canadian students who spent 7 or more years in school here ... cough, cough.. they all happen to be older than me in age as well. I have to work with many of these grads in virtual firms and group exercises and they are incredibly immature, entitled, and just plainly inadequate. I shudder to think of actual clients going to them for legal advice. 90% of them come from upper middle class, wealthy families, so it's no wonder that they'll trot around their privilege and make up excuses for why they couldn't get into law school here. There is a lot of bitterness among these grads when they're talking to Canadian law grads. You really feel it when you're in the same room with them. We go out as a group to social events as well, and one of my friends in the program went to Queen's for law school and she's an immigrant and a mother. Some of the Bond and UK grads have tried putting her down because of the sheer hate they have for an immigrant (non-White) and an older mature student getting into law school in Canada over them. It boggles your mind.
  4. What reasons are there to pick TRU over UBC and UVic?
  5. What areas/s of law and what is a competitive salary for an articling student/first year associate in your eyes? If you're still aiming for Biglaw, that ship has almost certainly set sail.
  6. Hey buddy, let me tell you something. Something that I don't think anybody here have really said to you properly. Others who were unsuccessful in this recruit should listen to this too. You did everything right. You beat out 85% of applicants to get into a Canadian professional school program - an Ontario law school - that has a less than 15% acceptance rate. You performed well academically in law school. You got a relevant 2L summer position. You got OCI and articling interviews. You made it to the second and third stages of your articling interviews. You played all the cards that you were dealt with in the best way that you thought possible - you did you. This is not your fault. Stop beating yourself up. The simple truth is that the legal job market is garbage right now, and has been for the last decade. There are very capable and hardworking students from every Canadian law school who do not have jobs right now. These few articling employers are interviewing 40-70 candidates for 2-3 respective positions. You wanted a golden goose egg and weren't offered one. Try again. It gets better once you get called to the bar because there are more employment opportunities for lawyers. There are far less such opportunities for law students and articling students. The market in most other professions is dismal right now as well. I know engineering graduates from U of T and Waterloo who are struggling. I know business students from Schulich and Laurier who don't have jobs. I know an Ontario medical school graduate struggling to find a residency match. The job market is bad for a lot of fields right now, with the legal market being right up there at the top. We get it. You wanted to be #1-5 out of the 40-70 candidates that were interviewed at these firms. But for some reason or another, you were not. Suck it up and move forward. You've hustled hard to make it this far, so keep on hustling. You came to law school to become a lawyer, right? So make that happen. Become a lawyer. You still have a full year to find an articling position. Make that happen. Good luck.
  7. Grinch


    In-house position for a major corporation.
  8. Grinch


    Because I have perspective from people who both articled and did the LPP. My point is that there are a lot of crappy articling positions out there. Most of the work placements in the LPP are not actually 4 months long. Depending on the agreement you come to with your employer, the placement can generally be extended for 6 months (January-June), and as I mentioned already, many students in the past were hired back as Associates by their employers. I'll give you some examples of people that I reached out to: http://www.healandco.com/lawyers/sia-moshiri/ - Sia Moshiri, a Queen's law grad that did his placement at this firm and was hired back. https://www.linkedin.com/in/asaad-hussain-b00367a8/ - Asaad Hussein, an Osgoode grad that did his placement from January-June, then was hired back as Crown Counsel at the MAG. https://hicksmorley.com/people/hossein-moghtaderi/ - Hossen Moghtaderi, an Ottawa grad that did his placement at Hicks Morley and was hired back as an Associate. https://www.fasken.com/en/gianrico-depasquale - Gianrico DePasquale, a Leicester grad that did his placement at Fasken in the first LPP cohort (2014-2015) and was hired back as an Associate. https://www.linkedin.com/in/michael-hunter-53025044/ - Michael Hunter, a Windsor grad that did his placement at the Chicago Title Insurance Company from January-June and was hired back as an Associate. https://www.linkedin.com/in/janettong/ - Janet Tong, an Osgoode JD/MBA grad that did her placement at ivari Canada from January-June and was hired back as an Associate. http://precedentjd.com/career/sponsored-content-want-to-land-great-job-take-the-law-practice-program/ Top firms are hriing LPP candidates. Hicks Morley partner Simon Mortimer explains why. And frankly, I'd rather do a 4 month placement at Lenzner Slaught or Ontario Power Generation than do a 10-month articling term for a sole practitioner (nothing wrong with this depending on your career goals) or some crappy firm that does unpaid/minimum wage articles. I have no reason to pitch the LPP. I just don't want you misleading future students who might be considering the program. The evidence speaks for itself. The law society extended the program in 2016 after an outcry of support came in when they decided to initially scrap the program altogether. I'm not encouraging or discouraging anyone from the LPP. It's an individual choice that someone must make for themselves. How has the LPP thus far served me in practice? I just went through the summer recruitment process and landed a paid position (1450/week) at a major in-house corporation. I'm pretty happy with the results. I can tell you that many of my peers from my graduating class dislike/hate their articling jobs, but they took them out of a necessity to complete articling.
  9. Grinch


    I'm doing the LPP right now and went to an Ontario law school. I found articling positions but saw the LPP as a better alternative. Currently there are grads from every Ontario law school, including quite a few McGill and out of province law school graduates in the LPP. There are also many foreign trained lawyers who practiced law for a number of years in their home country before coming to Canada. The LPP offers them an opportunity to practice law. Articling isn't great for everybody. Many of my peers are articling for free, minimum wage, or doing shared articles. Most of them are articling with employers, and in practice areas of the law, that was not their first or second choice. I'm doing the LPP not only for the practice management training that you receive for the first 4 months, but simply due to the roster of employers that participate in the process - MAG, in-house, major banks, Biglaw firms, Big 4 accounting firms, small/mid-sized firms in various practice areas like labour, criminal, family, estates, business, aboriginal, etc. It was either this or article in a crappy personal injury firm for 10 months. The simple truth is that the LPP is a better alternative than many articling positions out there. It gives students choice and your assumption that everyone is in the LPP because they could not find an articling position is false. http://www.lpp.ryerson.ca/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/OR-Thank-You-Ads-Feb-2018.pdf Here is a list of participating LPP employers from previous years. Prior to joining the program, I did talk to other Ontario law school graduates who came out of the LPP, and they had nothing but good things to say about the program and many of them were hired back by their placement employers after their call to the bar.
  10. I heard some articling positions were cancelled this year. I'm doing the Ryerson LPP right now and the hiring freeze resulted in placement cancellations with some public sector employers.
  11. Yea, this was what I was trying to get across. For full disclosure, I went to Windsor and I will never make the claim that my alma mater is equal (at least in terms of reputation) to other law schools like U of T, McGill, Osgoode, UBC, etc... not even Western and Queen's. Most people were here because they didn't get into any other Ontario law school. There are definitely people who succeed in terms of OCIs, clerkships, etc., but the numbers are much lower than it would be at other schools. I feel like everyone erinl2 knows are probably very accomplished people, given the fact that she went to U of T, clerked, and works at a reputable litigation boutique herself. I can tell you that for every 1 accomplished Windsor student you meet, there are probably 9 others who are overall rather mediocre and struggle in the job market. There are strong students at every school, but on average, the stronger and more capable students attend a handful of law schools. Law school rankings are subjective but this does not mean that it is non-consequential or non-existent. This forum is quick to crucify anyone who asks this question, but it's a very valid concern to have. There are still students from Windsor looking for articling positions right now. Can we say that there are still many U of T, Osgoode, UBC, McGill, Dalhousie students searching for articles?
  12. Ironically, I've found that the people who generally say rankings don't matter fall into two extreme spectrums - those that went to U of T law (many of the ranking naysayers on this forum are U of T law grads), and Windsor/Ottawa/Lakehead/ and other lower ranked law schools. Maybe the students at U of T underestimate how much the reputation of their school has actually helped them in the job market. Rankings may matter depending on the practice and industry you're going into. If you think industries outside of law don't rank law schools, then you're mistaken. The banks are doing it and so are many corporations. Big law firms certainly rank law schools based on OCI hiring rates. They generally don't matter for public interest jobs and small-mid sized firms. But there is nothing wrong with people wanting to know about how law schools are perceived in comparison to one another. Are people calling out business school rankings as imaginary rankings? Are people comparing Waterloo engineering with Guelph engineering and saying that it is an imaginary ranking? Torys has fewer than 10 lawyers from Windsor. Going through some of the litigation giants like Paliare Roland, the majority of lawyers are from U of T, Osgoode, and McGill with some UBC and Dalhousie sprinkled in. Edit: Rankings may or may not matter depending on a) the firm and practice area of law you're trying to get into b) industry (people do leave law to enter the business and tech sectors and not all law schools are viewed equally by these employers)
  13. I'm doing the LPP and registration deadline was June 1 for LSUC and June 15 for Ryerson. They extended the program for 2 years in November 2016, so the program will go through a review once the 2018-2019 period has ended.
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