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xdarkwhite last won the day on September 23

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About xdarkwhite

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  1. Seriously? I won't go down this road other than the response: Privilege, or lack thereof, doesn't come from whether or not you secured a 1L summer job. Experiencing racism is not cancelled out by having a return offer.
  2. I think the issue here is you are inappropriately trying to have the upsides without taking any of the associated risks (i.e., trying to have your cake and eat it too). Correct me if I'm wrong, but from my understanding of your post, you have accepted your offer and your plan is to go through OCIs while holding this accepted offer, such that if you are not successful in the 2L recruit, you still have this position to fall back on. This sounds unethical to me. This is not about "owing" the firm anything, it's not even really about harm to the employer, because I think this applies whether you were at a $500 million revenue law firm vs. a small sole practitioner. It's about the principle of skirting norms and rules of recruiting for your own gain. If you are in Ontario, you might want to review Rule B(9) and Rule C(11) of the LSO Summer Student Recruitment Procedures (https://lso.ca/becoming-licensed/lawyer-licensing-process/articling-candidates/finding-a-placement/2021-toronto-summer-student-recruitment-procedures). The alternative is what Mal is saying - you should withdraw your acceptance now and take the risk to go through OCIs, fully acknowledging that you might not come out with anything (and that your current firm might not take you back). While it's still a bit shady to have accepted an offer and then renege, it's a more sympathetic position to be in. Just a note on being BIPOC — I hear you and I understand where you are coming from. I have experienced racism, subtle and overt, both in and out of the workplace. It sucks and it's tiring. I also don't agree with the other posters who are questioning and attacking your experiences — back off. Sometimes, people take jobs and opportunities that are upsetting and degrading because of their lack of privilege, lack of resources, and whatever other reasons. And even if it's not enough to have you outright reject the offer, it doesn't make it any less real. That being said, I have also been in a spot where I had an offer and either take the safe route of accepting what I had, versus taking a risk of going through more recruiting with nothing in hand hoping for something better. I weighed the costs/benefits then, made a decision, and then made good with that decision. As have many others. You had the opportunity to weigh your options then — and you made a choice.
  3. You can ask but in my experience it’s a waste of everybody’s time. They will all give you the same cookie cutter answers - “it was especially competitive this year”, or, “you didn’t do anything wrong, it’s just that it’s 30 candidates for 5 spots”. YMMV though. Very, very anecdotal, so take this with a grain of salt, but – A good friend of mine struck out during the in-firm week but made some really good connections at some of the firms they were interviewing at. They asked for feedback from a partner that they interviewed with who was apparently really rooting for them at the student hiring committee stage. The partner said that it was really close, gave them some genuine feedback, and then connected them with friends at two other firms who were participating in the post-in-firm week recruitment. My friend quickly got pushed through to first round interviews with those two firms and ended up getting a summer position with one of them. I guess that's just to say, yes, YMMV, but I would not say that it's a complete waste of everyone's time, especially if you've done a round of interviews with them that you felt went really well. It's still an opportunity to continue any connections that you built over the course of the initial interviews, show that you're actually invested in improving yourself, and perhaps get some good feedback. At the very least, even if it is a "waste of time," you've at most wasted 10 minutes of your own time drafting an email and 5 minutes of the interviewer's time copy-pasting a cookie cutter answer, or none at all if they completely ignore you. You're already out of the running if they've sent you a rejection, so it can't hurt you. Though, I will advise, maybe wait until you're sure you've been rejected before asking for feedback and don't be surprised or upset if the response is cookie-cutter or non-existent. "Hi [X], I hope you had a great weekend! I really appreciate you taking time to interview with me last week and enjoyed our conversation about [Y]. Unfortunately, I was not selected to move forward with the recruitment process. As I continue to recruit for articling, I would appreciate any feedback or advice you might have regarding my application and interview. This process has been a fantastic learning opportunity. Thank you for your time and consideration." Or something along those lines. Good luck!
  4. I got both the Infinite Passport and the Amex Gold card. The Amex card has much better reward points (for restaurants, groceries, gas, and public transportation), and so I always pay with that unless the store does not take it, which then I use the Visa. You also might be surprised with the number of places that actually do take Amex - I'd say 85% of the restaurants and shops I've been to in Toronto do. I also got the 50,000 bonus points for joining the two cards. Also, not many people seem to be aware of this, but Amex does a small business rewards program every year. This year, the deal is you get $5 back for spending over $10 at small businesses, up to a maximum of 10 times (so $50 total) https://www.americanexpress.com/ca/en/merchant/shop-small.html. Great incentive to check out some smaller local shops or restaurants that you would not have otherwise, especially during times of COVID-19, and the extra $50 is nice too!
  5. Reminder that, for those who qualify, the CESB application is now open!
  6. I know some folks who lateraled over to London after becoming an associate at a Toronto firm but I don't know of anyone who actually went straight to the law firms in London after graduating from UofT. The licensing process in the UK takes three years after graduating law school (because their legal education is a 3-year undergraduate program). You have to complete the Legal Practice Course, which takes one full-time year or two part-time years, then do two years of traineeship (like articling) before you are called as a solicitor. Getting a trainee contract is fiercely competitive, from what I've heard. That, plus I'm not certain that a Canadian JD is recognized in the UK for the LPC, so you might have to do a one-year GDL conversion course before the LPC. That's at least additional three years after law school before you're a lawyer. The easier path is to just get called here in Ontario and then lateral over after via the QTLS. You have the work experience that the British law firms are looking for and a much easier licensing path.
  7. It sounds like there's quite a bit of interest in a Canadian version of Chambers Associate (https://www.chambers-associate.com/home), which I found immensely helpful when I was going through recruiting. It goes through everything that people are asking about firms, like "The Work", "Pro Bono", "Culture", "Hours and Compensation", etc. They even cover the OCI interview process, the in-firm interview process, and the summer program (e.g. rotational, free-market system, central assignment system). They explicitly reject quantitatively ranking the firms for recruiting. "When finding the right career for you, there is a lot more at stake than just perceived prestige. Chambers Associate reviews firms on a qualitative basis. We also draw on Chambers USA, our vast annual directory of US law firms based on client reviews." Maybe we can reach out to their head editor, Antony Cooke, to get a lawstudents.ca project started?
  8. Don't know about the other schools, but 27 or 28 students (or about 13% of the class) landed NY from UofT this year, plus 3 others who are splitting Toronto/NY with the NY firms in Toronto. There were five NY law firms that did OCIs at UofT, whereas I believe Osgoode had two. Numbers are here, but a bit off from mine because I'm aware of some students at the firms who declined to respond and the self-reported numbers: http://ultravires.ca/2019/09/new-york-summer-2020-recruit-results/. I also echo @Prospero that it's almost impossible to get a 1L NY position from UofT, but throw your hat in the ringer and see where it lands!
  9. Good advice, I'm going to drink diet coke at every dinner and reception I attend to weed myself out of the firms that I don't want to be working at.
  10. Breathe. It's been literally 2 business days since the OCIs. I know for a fact that many big law firms have yet to have sent anything out to anybody (e.g. McCarthys). ITCs will be coming in all through until call day, and like others have stated, there will still be many avenues of employment once this formal 2L recruit madness is over with. It ain't over until the fat lady sings. You have a great career ahead of you.
  11. I spent a whole chunk of my 1L summer working on the legal side of climate finance/clean tech VC/ESG-factor integration and you can PM me if you want to chat a bit about it. I talked about it a good deal in most of my 2L OCI/in-firm interviews and tagged it as an interest, but I didn't really tailor or target that specific area of law because I don't think the full-service firms are really looking for students/first-year associates to hit such a niche practice. From my understanding going through the recruiting process, they're looking to see if you're more interested in corporate vs. litigation, and then within those two for you to be as general as possible. From a firm perspective, I think they want to hire people that they know won't be bored if they have to staff you on an M&A deal or project financing deal and not your niche interest. Also, consider that Canada in particular is the world leader in metals, mining and energy, perhaps the opposite of clean tech and climate finance. That's a huge practice for a lot of the big law firms and while not mutually exclusive, they probably want to know that you are willing to work in that field. From a student perspective, I want as wide a breadth of experience as I can get so that I know the ins and outs of different types of legal transactions (assuming you're considering corporate and not litigation) and gain good legal knowledge and experience before targeting more niche areas later on in my career. If you're only targeting this specific field, you won't have work - there probably aren't enough clean tech VC or climate financing deals in Canada to keep you busy.
  12. Fellow UofT student here - I don't think there's anything you can do to bump up your position, nor would I think an email of interest would help. Let it play out, I know a few people who accepted NY offers very recently and will be withdrawing from the Toronto recruit, so you can expect to see some movement.
  13. ITC Davies, UofT. Got it last Thursday, Aug 29.
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