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About Demander

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  1. Demander

    How valuable is experience ......

    Any experience you can frame as useful is useful. Seems like the experience you listed shouldn't be too hard to fit into a persuasive story about why you would be interested in/ ready for law school. Think about what skills/experience you developed and try to put your experience in terms of what would be useful for law school. It doesn't totally matter what the experience is, but rather what you learned/ what it says about your maturity/character/aptitudes/interests and how that fits with the broader story you're trying to tell about your plans for/post law school.
  2. Demander

    Letter of recommendation/reference letter

    I had one prof who taught me in first year and with whom I remained in contact for the full four years. I sometimes dropped by their office hours just to chat etc. So it was a no-brainer to just drop by in person and ask for a reference letter. I had another prof whom I met in third year, while working on my law school application, and I was doing well in their course, so I met with them a few times in office hours, and asked a few questions about the course, talked about the subjects in my essay, talked about myself a bit -- then eventually asked for a reference letter. I built some rapport -- at least over the course of a few conversations -- before asking in each case. I personally think that's somewhat necessary to get a good reference letter, but of course I have only anecdotal evidence.
  3. Demander

    "why law school x" question

    I put in a line or two about location at the end of my applications - for Toronto schools, I just mentioned that I wanted to stay in my hometown, and that Toronto was an important hub of the legal profession in Canada or some such thing. Couldn't have hurt -- and McGill asked me about why I wanted Montreal when they interviewed me on the phone!
  4. Demander

    What would YOU do?

    Hey! I agree with the people who say 23 isn't "old" for law school at all. Also, congrats on finding a really solid banking job and getting off the ground after moving here. In answer to your hypothetical: If I were you, I would stick with my Scotia job and think about what I like/what I want to change about my career. My first step would be to see if there's a job at my existing workplace that I could switch to or get promoted to through some efforts, and otherwise see what kinds of jobs are otherwise available to me without me having to invest anything into additional training etc. If those options seem exhausted, I would take some time to think about my ideal job and how to get there. If, after that, I settled on a job that required a law degree/ bar membership, then I would start thinking about law school. If I had your stats, I would probably feel a bit discouraged, looking at the admission data for most of the Canadian law schools. I would consider whether I was necessarily going to 1) get into and 2) keep up with a law school class. I would reflect on whether my stats/LSAT reflected my best effort and either take the LSAT again if I thought I would do better, or think about how I might otherwise show that I have what it takes to perform alongside those with better stats. Moving back to me: I'm a law student and I want to give you the advice I often give to people in person as well as on this forum. Ignore this advice if you've already done this: As you think about what career you want to choose, think hard about what kind of work you actually want to be doing on a day-to-day basis. Law school is quite costly in terms of time, money, and opportunity cost no matter where you go. If you have a solid job at Scotiabank, think about what you like about that job/ what you don't like about that job/ and what kind of job would be better for you. Then, as you think about becoming a lawyer, talk to some people in the profession and talk to some people from other professions, and see what kinds of jobs they do. Then, think about whether you want to go to law school and which one and all that. You don't have to go to law school to have a great career, and if there's a job you've dreamed of doing all your life, you may be able to do that job or something similar without the law degree, depending on what it is. Again, this isn't to discourage you at all, but just to note that law school is expensive in more ways than one and if you think there's a chance that you'll be able to get that great career without the expense, you should weigh that first -- especially if it seems like your stats are not the most competitive right now/ there's a chance you'll struggle if admitted.
  5. Demander

    Did I just screw myself?

    I wouldn't recommend writing a third time unless you're somehow going to be able to do significantly better than either of your previous scores. It's costly to keep taking the LSAT, and it comes with diminishing marginal returns. Might be worth cutting your losses and thinking about how to improve your app in other ways... personal statement could save you if there's lots of interesting experience and a strong narrative whose logical next step is your legal education.
  6. Demander

    Ask a 3L!

    OMG This.
  7. Demander

    Which schools do I have a realistic shot at?

    There are a lot of chances threads that might give you more details on the specific schools general admissions trands, but I think it's hard to give feedback without more details about you. What year are you in right now? Are you done undergrad? Access/mature applicant? What kind of volunteer work? Do you have anything that would make your PS stand out?
  8. I think that leaving your undergrad unfinished is only a good idea if you have a good gpa (check); a good LSAT score (???); and some solid out-of-classroom experience you can point to in your personal statements (i.e., entrepreneurial ventures; some great EC achievement; a significant publication or something like that). I know of someone who got into UBC law in third year... and that's about it. I do not know of anyone at U of T right now who didn't complete their undergrad (though I haven't polled for that). In terms of making sure you can't get the career you're looking for without going through the hassle of law school, I would recommend finding some Toronto lawyers and asking them for a coffee chat about their jobs. I spoke to several lawyers before applying to law school, and the coffee chats helped me learn more about what different kinds of lawyers did and whether I might like it. You might want to do the same thing with people in careers that are not law, but who work in similar cushy and high-stakes environments (idk finance people? Investment type-stuff?). Nothing about your dream job description screamed "law" to me, so it might be worth checking out similarly lucrative and business-y Toronto jobs.
  9. Demander


    I have never had any of the profs you listed, but I've heard terrible things about Fadel's bizorg class. In any case, the grade distribution renders the quality of the prof rather moot. All it'll do is make the class more/less pleasant depending on your learning style. So far, I have only had one prof whose style lined up with mine, but many people in the class didn't much like that prof. Overall, I'd say the profs are a neutral force that make little difference to the learning experience. They can be helpful if you wheedle them for answers, but don't expect to learn the law from them - most of the learning will be on your own/ with other students/ from books and outlines.
  10. Demander

    Really need advice for law school and life

    Hey! It looks like there's lots of good advice from the other posts here already, but I wanted to add/ reiterate two things: 1. I would recommend thinking about how you would answer these before deciding if law school makes sense for you: What draws you towards wanting to be a Crown prosecutor, judge, or law professor? Or any other law job? What kinds of tasks do people in these jobs do on a day-to-day basis? What kinds of tasks do you enjoy doing? If you didn't go to law school, what would you be doing? The answers to those questions would probably also help you when figuring out what to write for your personal statement, if you choose to apply. 2. About #6. You can find lots of information on this site that can point you in the right direction, but you should also try to find some people around you who are either law students or lawyers or people who have applied to law school, who would be willing to tell you more about what the process was like for them. They would probably also tell you more about all the law schools they applied to, and that could help you pick a school that best suits you. I would very very very strongly recommend doing a lot of research about what kinds of jobs you would want to do in general, including but not limited to law jobs. You could start with your school's career office, or go online, or talk to people you know in careers you think you might find interesting. Think about what you enjoy doing, and what you would actually want to do as a job. Then go find jobs that meet your criteria. Then start looking at any additional education or whatever you would need for those jobs. I'm not trying to warn you away from law - hope this doesn't come off that way! It just seemed from your post that you weren't too sure about whether you wanted to do a law job/ what law school required. A lot of people in my undergrad seemed to feel like once they'd started considering the law, they were locked in to that aspiration forever. Later, they would realize that they actually wanted to do a history masters or work for an NGO or become a filmmaker or whatever. So they ended up wasting a lot of time and money because they sort of felt that if they could make themselves into a lawyer, then that's what they "should" be doing. Some of this came from family pressures and some of it from misconceptions about what lawyers are/do. You're still in undergrad and have lots of time to research/ think about this - so don't get locked in as you search for your ideal career path.
  11. But to avoid diverting too much from OP's question - what do people do during class to get the most out of it? I know some people type out everything the prof says like a court stenographer, while others just sit back and listen, etc.
  12. I agree with you @Queensberry - I think I did get those things from speaking to profs, but it might be that I came into law school with lofty expectations of having the material really spoon-fed to me. As I mentioned before, I generally found lectures extremely unhelpful - maybe I just got unlucky with profs, but in general they seemed to just re-hash whatever I read from the case (and textbook/secondary sources) already without really adding much else. The only time I really got something more was when I spoke to them after class or in office hours - and for that, I had to come in with specific questions that demanded a simple answer. Profs are certainly helpful to learn from for the reasons you explained. I guess I'm just not a lecture person and find that I get the answers I need by either speaking to the profs directly or by consulting other sources or by working it out on my own/with classmates.
  13. Yeah the idea of "wasting' my tuition money by skipping lectures always kept me coming back to the classroom... I didn't mean to sound whiny - just felt a bit frustrating with how little I felt I was benefiting from this teaching I am paying so much for. I definitely don't understand everything 100% with no uncertainties before class, but I often find that the profs I've had, with one exception, are pretty vague and evasive about answering questions during class. I also find that I just learn better from talking things over with classmates or learning things from the textbooks or other books outside the classroom. The only times I've really found profs useful are when I have highly specific yes or no questions about whether I have understood a point of law correctly. Maybe this is just a learning style thing. The one prof I found I gained the most from did very little lecturing - most of the class was spent with the students answering the prof's questions and sort of reasoning as a group towards an understanding of the law. I find I learned more from that kind of two-way exchange than from listening to a lecture.
  14. Hey I attended all my classes and did the readings - I was just asking how best to use the time while I'm there. Since I didn't feel that I got much out of it, I figured someone could point me to something I'm missing/ a way to gain more from the experience. I was not suggesting that I had a better use for my time, simply expressing that the low level of benefit I felt that I got from attending class made me question whether it was a smart use of my time. I was not implying that I was making a choice between either going to class or doing the readings. Not at all. Hope that clears things up.
  15. I hope this doesn't diverge too much from OP's original question, but I'd be really interested to know what people think about using time in class wisely/ getting the most out of class time. I personally found that, despite speaking up and paying attention during most of my classes, I really don't get that much out of it. In fact, after trying a few different note-taking styles, I discovered that I did best in classes where I took very few notes and did most of my learning and studying and reviewing outside the classroom. It really made me question whether going to class was a smart use of my time at all. Did anyone else experience this? What do y'all do to get the most out of being in class?