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Everything posted by BlockedQuebecois

  1. Agree with @pzabbythesecond re: costs. UBC has large bursaries that will likely drop your costs down into the 5-figure range. Osgoode’s largest bursary won’t even drop you down into the 5-figure range. No amount of rent saved by living in North York will make up for the massively higher tuition of Osgoode. Plus you would have to live in North York. No amount of rent savings are worth living in North York. Osgoode is rarely the right choice for students, in my opinion.
  2. Could you explain how attacking the explicit claim put forward by spec is a straw man? To me, attacking an explicit claim is the opposite of constructing a straw man.
  3. At a certain point, you have to put so many qualifications on something that it’s not particularly interesting. Being the oldest common law law school in the Commonwealth of Nations outside of a bunch of law schools in England, Scotland, Wales, Ireland (which isn’t even in the Commonwealth of Nations), and Northern Ireland isn’t particularly prestigious. It’s like a bad jeopardy question: this law school is the oldest law school in the city of Toronto located East of Yonge St. What is Ryerson Law School, Alex?
  4. I meant specs weird fake fact, but 10/10 retort 😂
  5. McGill is older. Also, can something be prestigious if nobody knows about it? Feels like a “if a tree falls in the forest and nobody hears it...” situation.
  6. I think when someone says they’re interested in private practice firms with a niche in constitutional litigation, they’re talking about firms that focus on appellate and Supreme Court advocacy surrounding constitutional issues broadly, not criminal lawyers in small practices that occasionally bring Charter challenges but usually spend their time engaging with the Criminal Code.
  7. You shouldn’t, med students are idiots. Respect people for their accomplishments, not their credentials.
  8. I didn’t have an A+ in one of the courses I was a Dean’s Fellow for. In general, the professors will reach out to you. There’s no application process, and my read is that it’s really based on whether the professor liked you more than anything else, although obviously you’ll need to have done well in the course.
  9. “I’ve suspected that employers prefer U of T JDs to Windsor Dual JDs for years” is the most dramatic statement of an obvious fact I’ve ever read.
  10. If anything, they’re the opposite.
  11. How can a hard threshold be fluid year to year? If it’s fluid year to year, it would just mean that the threshold is whatever the lowest GPA they interview is.
  12. I took it to mean that 71% of respondents to the survey got offers, while only 54% of student overall got hired. That would be a significant skew, and is actually made worse by the student who already had a job.
  13. @Ambit, can't quote you for some reason. In-firm conversion rate is vitally important, though, because that's the stage that tells us whether or not grades are important post-OCIs. The mere fact that fewer bad students get offers doesn't tell us anything, because for all we know they struck out of their one in-firm while the top students struck out of 50% of theirs. I think you're right re: 71%, which means the ultra vires data is going to be incredibly skewed towards top candidates.
  14. If you read what I posted, I never said you need X grades for Y job. I said that 4 out of the 6 people who got Y job had X grades or better. If people are failing to adequately interpret data, that's not my fault. Particularly when my explicit advice, from both myself and others, was for said student to apply anyways. Anyways, I've said my part.
  15. Anyways, it's fine for us to disagree here. The argument that disclosing grades in law school would make people feel inadequate or cause self-doubt is a reasonable one, it's just not one I subscribe to. I think a lot of the negative and toxic culture you find at law school is the result, in part, of the secrecy surrounding grades. Students don't know how other students are doing, and thus have to judge how they're doing based off other, external factors. You and I have spoken before about how students tend to assume that the top students are working 14 hours a day, and thus they feel pressured to work 14 hours a day to keep up, and then everyone is in the library until 11 pm on a Friday in October. Knowing which students are succeeding would allow those students to see that the top students aren't always in the library, and maybe then they wouldn't feel pressured to be in the library until 11 pm on a Friday in October. Either way, sharing my grades with a select group of close friends has been helpful for me. It's helped me understand where I stand going into recruits, it's helped me understand (and feel better about) why I did or did not get certain jobs, and it's allowed me to be more self-reflective. Overall, I'd say that being more open with my successes and failures in law school has made my law school experience healthier and less stressful than the experiences of many of my peers. My approach might not work for everyone, and it doesn't need to – I'm not advocating for public disclosure of transcripts on the walls of the law school the day after grades are released. But I think coming in here and saying you don't "get" why people would talk about their grades around close friends is needlessly judgmental and helps enforce what I view as a toxic component of the law school experience.
  16. That’s fine, you’re welcome to continue not sharing information with your friends. They’re not going to tie you down and waterboard you until you share what your torts grade was. But judging other people for doing so doesn’t seem useful. And if law school had a culture of sharing grades and open discussion, this site would be significantly less useful to law students applying to jobs. There’s a reason people like spec come here, disclose their grades anonymously, and ask for advice – because doing so at law school isn’t generally acceptable. And call me crazy, but I think law school would be a lot more healthy if you could rely on your friends and peers for advice and support, rather than anonymous strangers on the internet.
  17. I’ve always found the weird obsession with keeping law school grades secret rather toxic. It’s helpful to know what grades people who got SCC and appellate clerkships has, what grades 1L hires had, and what grades NY hires had. There’s a lot of information asymmetry between employers and law students that puts law students at an unnecessary disadvantage. Its similar, in that manner, to the problems with keeping one’s salary secret from one’s coworkers.
  18. Osgoode doesn’t do midterm grades. Students entering the 1L recruit from Oz have 3 final grades (torts, contracts, and crim). In the context of discussing the 1L recruit from Osgoode, straight As mean an A or A+ in each of those three courses.
  19. And since spec is trying to throw shade at me here, I’ll just explain why I called his A+/B/B not competitive for the 1L recruit: Last year, at least 4 of the 6 Osgoode 1L students hired at full service firms had at least straight As. At least two had straight A+s. I also know that the “straight A or A average” advice is what was told to me by students who completed the 1L recruit the two years preceding my year. If @Rashabon says that B+s across the board with a good application would get you interest, that’s news to me, but I’m inclined to believe him. Query what “good application” means though, and perhaps Rashabon could elaborate for future students. My theory for why grade thresholds seemed lower this year: full service firms hired twice as many Osgoode 1Ls year-over-year. That will almost certainly lower the average gpa of hires. And hey, if I knew that full service firms were going to increase their Osgoode hiring by 100% this year, I would have been more bullish on the chances of otherwise marginal (for the 1L recruit) students. But I didn’t know that, so my advice was tailored to reflect what was foreseeable. As for whether I discouraged people from applying, I’ll leave my advice below for others to judge [emphasis added]: And here is my tailored advice to spec, excerpted to avoid the personal question he asked via pm: Some people are so ungrateful.
  20. For Osgoode students, straight A’s are weirdly common after first semester. Osgoode students go into the 1L recruit with 3 grades total, and getting 3 A’s out of 8 1L courses really isn’t that strange.
  21. That data isn't inconsistent. A candidate with better grades will likely get more OCIs. More OCIs increase your chances of getting in-firms. More in-firms increase your chances of an offer. Therefore, better grades increase your chance of an offer, even if they are never considered as a criterion past the getting OCI stage. In order to establish that grades are a significant factor post-OCI, you would need data showing that students with higher GPAs were more successful at turning in-firms into offers, and you would need to compensate for the small sample sizes for students with fewer in-firms (since for marginal students, the success rate may be a binary 1 or 0, while for students with a full slate of in-firms are unlikely to have a binary outcome). Also, lol at the reported data that 71% of respondents received a job offer but only 54% were hired. There's a 0% chance that 17% of students are going through OCIs and in-firms only to turn down their offers at the end.
  22. I know at least one student was hired with an A, A, B from Osgoode.
  23. The fact that people with B averages got hired.
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