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Everything posted by theycancallyouhoju

  1. My experience is that it’s entirely possible and totally not guaranteed and the specific needs of a given practice group will dictate. NY firms will hire from Australia or HK or London if someone with good experience in the right year with the right practice comes along at the right time. If the question is whether Bay Street lawyers apply with the same footing as other NY biglaw lawyers - no. That doesn’t seem to be the case. If the question is whether Bay gives you enough to have a reasonable chance at moving - sure, market- and practice-dependent.
  2. I did not do many of the recommended readings and can only recall once cracking open a treatise. That was probably the biggest difference maker. I did everything required of me and - as in most of my life - very little more. I did lots of other things I saw as important to becoming the lawyer I wanted to be. I founded a thing at law school, did my volunteer work, and spent a lot of time learning about the markets I wanted to go into and the lawyers I might want to work with(/for) because I knew I wanted to pursue a certain kind of career. I’m a fairly quick reader. Hard to get a sense of how much faster than the curve, but I wouldn’t guess it’s much of a difference.
  3. No. I did all the readings and made my own summaries. I never worked a 40 hour week in 1L, except the 2-3 weeks around exams. I have complete faith @ProfReader is reporting their actual experience. But I did most of those same things, also had extra-curriculars, and was still cooking my dinner and chilling by 8pm at the latest.
  4. I’m just about into my mid-30s now. I’ve been in high school, taught ESL abroad, worked in professional positions, been through McGill, through law school, through the first meaningful chunk of a corporate lawyer career, and one of the most consistent threads throughout is this: There are people who could wake up on a bed of roses, be handed a million dollar check with breakfast, then go back to sleep and still widely advertise their self-branding as “extremely overwhelmed; totally pushing it to the limits; treated unfairly all the time; doing the hardest thing ever”. There are other people who could be working 17 hours a day to make a spaceship and they’d tell you life is great, fortune truly smiles upon me.
  5. I did all of the readings in 1L. I think in 2L as well, actually, though my memory is hazy. I don’t like the feeling of being assigned work and not doing it. (I valiantly overcame that struggle in 3L, where my grades remained pretty much the same as they were before.) But no, I never did law school on Sat/Sun in 1L, other than right before exams, and I never did any work past about 8pm on weeknights. That’s factoring in sleeping in late, going to the gym, and spending 2 hours of every lunch period shooting the shit with people instead of working. Honestly, a lot of the readings are like 4 pages long. Students complain - so much - when a reading is 20 pages. It’s a good thing they’re all heading into careers that don’t involve much reading.
  6. There’s a 99% chance that they fall into the class of people who just find it extremely important for their sense of identity that everyone thinks they’re solo-climbing Everest while curing cancer. That class makes up the most vocal contingent of law school. The remaining 1% chance is that they have unique personal challenges that make doing any schooling, even the part-time project that is law school, very difficult. If you have unique circumstances like that - if you’re a single mom raising 2 kids - then yes, 1L will definitely present some challenges, but only because life is challenging as a default.
  7. I’m just going to confirm what the above folk said because lots of prospective students read this forum and get scared. There’s no reason to be studying late in law school, unless you’ve decided to fill 9am - 9pm with other things. Except for the week or two before exams, I can’t even imagine working till ten.
  8. Okay, but I responded to your actual claims. If the question is actually just so minimal as to be whether there are any jobs called lawyer that see low working hours and minimal stress - sure. There are some.
  9. Plus, I don’t know how to break this news to you, but there are lots of lawyers who are genuinely willing to work those hours for that money. At least for some chunk of their lives. When people say ‘biglaw might not be for you’ to someone who wants to go home at 6pm regularly, that’s not inequitable. My experience has been that most people leave about 6-18 months after they stopped valuing the trade enough to make it. That seems pretty reasonable.
  10. Hard to imagine will turn into easy to see why. I had a lot of the same questions six years ago. My firm has no billable targets, soft or hard, at least none that anyone has ever explained or applied, and most of us bill well more than Toronto targets. We work very long hours because our clients do things within timeframes that require a small group of lawyers to be available, and doing things, most of the time. Every associate will tell you there have been times their practice group was short staffed and they could have used a few more bodies. Many will go through periods where they’re on too many matters, but that’s often just because they were assigned deals at times it was harder to predict when everything would get busy. You’ll notice no one in this thread is saying that only people who want to bill 2000 a year papering private equity transactions should be lawyers. Even within my world, if you want to start at a less pricey law firm, do compliance/regulatory stuff and bounce to work an in-house compliance officer job by 5th year, you can do all that while barely breaking a sweat. I know commercial transactional lawyers who go home at a reasonable hour, too. They just make a lot less money, like you said. The roles you’re whining don’t exist, do exist, more or less. There are 9-5 jobs in law. Or, at least, close enough to it. There are other jobs that aren’t 9-5 and you’re wrong on how much of that is a function of toxic choice. The bulk of it is the result of working for clients who get off calls at 9pm and ask for docs (or whatever) by 9am, plus the high likelihood of errors and the practical impossibility of trying to handover work midstream. ** Now, what you could do, is give everyone 3 months off. You could just cut their pay by some bit over 25% and say each of you work the stupid hours, but for three months each year you get sabbatical. The problem with this theory is that there would be far more lawyers than you think who say no, I’ll take the money, thanks.
  11. Yeah this is wrong. You couldn’t just swap out associates for day and night shifts. You couldn’t just have 20 person teams on every small deal. Leaving aside the economic efficiency entirely, it would produce countless errors as people had to spend 1/2 their time just catching up on what the other teammates did. As an M&A lawyer, I’d rather just put in the hours. The nightmare of trying to handover to make sure everyone worked an 8 hour shift would be absurd. My comment is limited to large M&A work, though, since it’s all I have direct experience with.
  12. No particular wisdom to share, I’ve just never heard a NY lawyer say they believe Canadian lawyers are more competent or experienced on average at any given rank. It would be so out of character I’d probably spit out my morning coffee even if it were late at night.
  13. That would definitely be news to me.
  14. How is this still a thread? Law students need one suit or professional get-up, as hegdis said, and as long as it fits, you’ll be fine. Wear student clothes to school. If you wear professional clothes to school, the rest of us will think you’re a dork. Not in a cute way. In a “I’m affecting the appearance of professional because I’m highly status sensitive” way.
  15. Oxhorn. Failing that, mother of pearl. But if you (or your houseboy, naturally) bought caviar that came in a metal tin already, just throw it out.
  16. I’m not even sure UT lets you graduate if you don’t own your own caviar spoons. Anyway, as long as you have one tux for each day of the week, you’ll be fine.
  17. I doubt I knew more than one person at law school who agreed with 3.
  18. My favorite part of that critique was that it unfairly gave access to “networking opportunities with professors”. As if you can’t just go talk to them practically any time at all.
  19. Oh I’m glad to hear it lives! But yes, it was protested because it didn’t adhere to Marxist-Leninist principles. So, that’s how conservative UT is.
  20. Wasn’t the charity auction at UT that raised money for First Nations women shut down because protestors complained that students with more money could donate and win more and that was classist? Thats how conservative UT law is. They shut down an activist project to help First Nations women and foster community, obvious progressive goods, because it broke another progressive principle.
  21. Go do ESL teaching. You’re the ideal candidate. If you’ve never spent real time abroad, particularly on your own, it will be an enriching experience. Working full time will do you well before more school, and the opportunity to travel before you have the full weight of a lawyer’s responsibilities will be irreplaceable. Edit: And to invert the argument of another poster - there’s never a good reason not to take a gap year or more. You live once. You don’t need to be a lawyer for all of it. Frankly, I hope we’re all more interesting people than that. And as a general rule, the greatest anxiety comes from students who came straight from undergrad.
  22. You’re not screwed for OCIs. People get OCIs even with mediocre grades. Do your best next semester and then worry about the next strategic step.
  23. @pzabbythesecond / @jwms Apologies for being late, I’ve been backed up. There are more UT students hired to NY each year than McGill and, to my knowledge, fewer NY firms actively consider McGill students. If a prospective student were dead set on NY, my advice would be go to UT and do the JD/MBA - that’s the surest route to an interview.
  24. Of course not. It’s learning a (or many) theoretical lens(es) through which to analyze legal institutions, culture, norms, etc. Before you learn what the law is as a thing in itself. That’s the silly part. Like learning Phil of math before you know what addition is instead of after.
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