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theycancallyouhoju last won the day on November 4

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  1. I’m not going to pretend there aren’t exceptions. My bottom line point is that changing the procedural aspects won’t, in literally any event, remove the types of anxiety we see. Second order point is that people with prior careers seemed demonstrably less distressed on average, and there are good reasons to ground that.
  2. Yeah, I just don’t think the level of distress we see around OCIs* is a function of how hard it is to do a day of interviews. Those same kids will end up getting comfortable spending 10 hours on a Saturday fielding calls and turning drafts. They’re all pretty much capable. The distress is a function of something much more social and psychological, and you won’t reduce it unless you address those issues. *To the lurkers reading who aren’t yet in law or are in 1L: Not everyone, not even all K-JDs get that distressed. While it does generally get a bit messy, and some do go off the rails, there is no need to be fatalistic about that.
  3. The premises I’m working from are these: 1. The primary drivers of unreasonably high anxiety around OCIs are (a) inexperience with job recruitment/interviews, (b) fear of being off a set path, and (c) fear of seeing peers celebrate while you lament. These are the things people come on the forum and talk about every year: I’m lost; I don’t want to be around the other students right now; I’m out of hope; I don’t know how to hold a wine glass and talk at the same time, etc. 2. Students who went K-JD have often invested close to 100% of their public identity in their student-future-lawyer identity. This makes law school feel like it’s everything. These two are why both sides are right in the ‘OCIs are fine/horrible’ debate - OCI is one of the most facilitated job recruitment processes on earth, and at the most anxious schools, students have unbelievably high chances at getting some of the highest paying entry jobs around. At the same time, it really is hugely destabilizing if you’ve wrapped your identity up in being The Good Student or The One With Potential your whole life. The broader the well from which you draw your self-worth, the less any of that matters in comparison. Experience takes out 1(a). Having other career skills/options and having seen other paths takes out 1(b) and greatly diminishes 1(c). I just think it’s inaccurate to try to resolve student anxiety by way of tweaking the mechanics. The issue isn’t the recruit, it’s how we orient ourselves to the recruit.
  4. Nepotism and social class would govern hiring. If you gave a mark for the bar, then the wealthy could get tutors and their kid would win. A plus of 1L exams is that they’re very hard to tutor, and the only people who could tutor them very well are practicing law and already forgot most of 1L. Make the bar into the LSAT and you’ll have a whole industry pop up. That’s a complaint about the housing market and about associate pay stagnation, not about what age you get to start being a lawyer.
  5. Shortening law school - sure, that’s fine. But I don’t care about the opportunity cost part. The prelaw work will set people up to make better, more informed career decisions and I care about net happiness more than net cash. Three years of work is nonnegotiable for me. Two years is an internship plus a lark - make it long enough that people really have to figure something out.
  6. Plus people would have three years to learn to fit in to a professional setting if that isn’t something they grew up with. Helped me. I advocate taking time to work to every law hopeful I speak to, but a lot of kids are terrified of going out into the world and law school affirms their sense of still being on “the right path”. The need to feel like you’re on “the right path” is also what causes a lot of OCI anxiety. Kicking it out of your system before law school is objectively good.
  7. Here’s my proposal for reducing the stress of OCIs: law schools only accept candidates with 3+ years of full time work experience. I never saw a student with a career history break down in the recruit.
  8. I’m just seeing this, but what’s the theory here? That having 3 years of your marks matter (for all students instead of some) is going to be less stress than having 1 year of your marks matter? I don’t get it. Though given the obvious benefits to NY, I’m on board. Edit: Quite naturally, the effect would not be to encourage law students to enjoy law school or learning. It would be to encourage them to take the birdiest courses they can identify. There would be a rush each year to sign up for whatever classes sound like the least work. One of the defining features of 2L for me was that I enjoyed lectures, sort of - why not? I had my job locked on Sept. 1 (or around then). Lectures were more like a form of entertainment and I could take them in while leaning back.
  9. Didn’t Anakin end up bringing down the entire empire? I defer to people who work in the relevant areas, but if it’s a useful short term cheer up - knew folks focused on labor side that got no OCI gig and are now happy lawyers in various areas of practice, including labor side. Dreams not dead.
  10. Because, by definition, they hire people who didn’t get OCI gigs. Its natural to be inclined toward fatalism right now. That’s the headspace you’re in. But it’s incorrect.
  11. Be mindful that you’re already approaching the next stage as you did the first. Make that decision consciously.
  12. Oh. Well in that case I’d just remind you that it sounds like you got plenty of OCIs and certainly enough to believe your written app is fine. And as Uriel said, you’re now one of the stronger candidates on paper in a diminished field. Your area to improve, I have no doubt, is coming off like a confident, fun, relaxed human. That’s what you’re going to have to work at and the work for now essentially means tuning back into real life and out of job app paranoia and minutiae.
  13. You should put these thoughts out of mind at bare minimum till the next week.
  14. Take the advice of lawyers and prioritize your confidence, calmness, and peace of mind. You haven’t done that this round, I think we can admit, and you don’t feel you’re getting the outcomes you want. So it’s time soon to reconsider whether we’re right about this.
  15. You need a break from your anxiety and you need to put some distance between this process and yourself. Then you can think about next steps if needed. Not before.
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