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NYCLawyer last won the day on August 13 2018

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About NYCLawyer

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  1. Take the job and keep looking from there.
  2. If you have any honor you disembowel yourself but you’d be surprised how many people are willing to shame themselves and their families by living on.
  3. I am poor but happy. My happiness isn’t very related to earnings. Also someday I’ll earn more.
  4. Do you have some legal status that allows you to work in the US? The biggest reason you mostly see Canadian students going to large firms is they’re the only ones with the infrastructure and resources to apply for/sponsor visas. If you don’t have legal status this is going to be your biggest obstacle (assuming you get admitted to the bar).
  5. You will get into all of the Canadian schools and you will get into H. You have a strong chance of getting into S. There are never guarantees with Y but you are as much in the running as anyone. There is a site called lawschoolnumbers.com that’s useful for estimating your chances if you want to look into it further. At least it used to be good 10 years ago. You should apply to all of the above and not worry overly about what to do until you’ve been admitted and learn what financial aid package you get from the US schools. If you know for sure you want to practice in the US I think it’s a given you should go to HYS. That will guarantee you can get a job down here. Unless you finish at the top of your class in Canada it can be very hard to move down here, and even then you are limited to a few states. You obviously stand a better chance than most at doing well in law school but there are never any guarantees. Graduating in the top part of your class at HYS will open doors coming out of law school in the US and internationally that graduating at the top of your class in Canada will not: US clerkships, some elite US firms, academia. All things being equal going to HYS is always an advantage in the US and internationally over Canadian schools but all things are never equal. Cravath will take a top percentile Toronto/Osgoode/McGill student over a bottom half Harvard student. And everyone will hire a fourth year M&A associate from Cravath who went to Osgoode over a fourth year M&A associate from an also-ran firm even if that student went to Harvard. If you want to stay in Canada I think it’s more complicated. It’s hard to say that HYS is ever a “disadvantage” even in Canada but depending on how much extra debt you have to take on it may not confer enough advantage that it’s worth it to you. You’ll always be able to say you went to HYS, and that’s something. But there are no doors in Canada open only or preferentially to HYS grads and you will have to jump through a bunch of hoops (google the NCA requirements) to be admitted to the bar in Canada with a US law degree. And you won’t have as much of a local network.
  6. I think you’re right that there’s a lot of noise but I don’t know about the assumption that this noise favors defaulting to U of T. How do you know there’s not systematic undercorrecting rather than overcorrecting for the quality difference between U of T and some other schools and thus that the “noise” and dice roll favors the non UofT option? Lord knows I’m way too far removed from school to have any dog in this fight — and I had multiple offers both in NY and at sisters so this isn’t sour grapes talking — but in my year U of T took something like 12-15 transfer students who were heavily drawn from the top of the class at other Ontario schools and they almost all (maybe all) ended up in NY or at sisters. In spite of this, many of the top firms in Toronto (other than I think Blakes, which always seemed to be 50% U of T) didn’t have any (or hardly any) more U of T grads than any other Ontario school in their 2L class, because they understandably want to maintain a pipeline from all schools and strive for some diversity of school background. When you account for the fact that a bunch of these “U of T” students were transfers I think there was hardly any overrepresentation of students who spent 1L at U of T at all. I pick 2L summer as the comparison time, by the way, because most of the NY kids split their summer, meaning the lack of overrepresentation cannot be easily explained away as “they were all in New York.” As you say there’s a ton of noise here and I could definitely be wrong but I suppose I’m just not sold on the noise meaning you default to Toronto schools rather than the other way, unless you’ve already assumed the conclusion. Anyway I’ve beaten this horse to death and we’re admittedly talking unknowables. Just explaining my view.
  7. I don’t think so. Some schools place more students on Bay, but those schools also have better students. I don’t know think it’s obvious that any given student is better off at school x over school y.
  8. I guess. But assuming you didn’t want or weren’t going to get one of these jobs by being a top student at a top school I still think school makes little or no difference because firms will just go comparatively deeper into the class at some schools than others. So in one world you’d end up median at U of T and in another top quarter at Ottawa. (These numbers are purely made up I’m not trying to debate the specifics.) I assume firms’ incentive is to attract the best candidates by roughly coming with with that school/class rank equivalency spot and I have no reason to think they’re doing it wrong. It’s not all U of T grads on Bay Street, that’s for sure, and U of T doesn’t guarantee you anything or provide a floor the way Harvard does. If I was advising people looking for non-SCC and non international jobs I’m not convinced I’d tell them one school will give them better job prospects. Sometimes it’s better to be a bigger fish in a smaller pond. Again I could be wrong but I don’t think it’s simply obvious that going to U of T over Western pays off, even if they did cost the same.
  9. Is it true that what school you go to has a material impact on job prospects? Outside of a small number of international jobs I would have guessed no. I understand that firms will go deeper into the class at some schools than others but I thought that was based on the expectation that some student bodies are, on average, stronger than others. In other words the same person will place higher at school x than school y. So in that sense I think expected job outcomes are probably similar. I could be wrong.
  10. I agree with Hegdis. The only way to be an incompetent junior is to be lazy. When you get documents or a task you don’t understand first sit down and read whatever materials you have thoroughly, then come and ask questions. Inevitably your reading will involve a lot of wasted time and focus on the wrong stuff. But if your questions show that you have read the thing and made some efforts on your own to figure out the answers via reading, google, etc then I can tell you are useful and I will teach you what you need to know. If not, I can tell you are not useful.
  11. I wouldn’t note the “correction,” just say it’s an updated resume. I’m not sure why you think it’s dishonest to call a typo correction an update. When people send drafts around nobody says “attached is an updated AND CORRECTED draft” if they fixed nits in addition to updates. This distinction exists only in your head, at least when talking about typos. If you say “corrected” people are going to say “wait, what, is there a substantive correction in here? What is it? Is the kid not in law school? Did he fail torts? Now I have to re-read this and figure out wtf is going on.”
  12. Hmm. I fear that a faulty premise is leading to a faulty conclusion here. There’s no evidence that anyone who spends as much time on ls.ca as me, providence, or hoju is inclined to working very hard. Which means I would much rather focus on the me who was predestined to waste my day here than the one where this is all my fault.
  13. I guess I didn’t really interpret “imposter syndrome” as being related to the emotional/hustle/whatever aspects of the job. I’ve usally heard the term used in terms of fear of being exposed as secretly incompetent. But anyway I don’t really need to get into a semantic debate about imposter syndrome. My response that law isn’t that hard was related to the fact that people who get through law school are competent to do the job with some experience.
  14. Relax, you’ll be fine. Law isn’t that hard. Just because law schools rank students against one another doesn’t make the practice of law difficult. Anybody who got into law school can do the job with some practice. The only people who fail aren’t trying or have some kind of unrelated issue like a substance abuse problem. If you’re diligently trying to do a good job you’re already better than 85% of lawyers.
  15. Right... I had to get up in the morning at ten o'clock at night half an hour before I went to bed, drink a cup of sulphuric acid, work twenty-nine hours a day down mill, and pay mill owner for permission to come to work, and when we got home, our Dad and our mother would kill us and dance about on our graves singing Hallelujah.
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