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barelylegal

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barelylegal last won the day on August 18 2018

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  1. You will generally be asked to submit undergraduate and law school transcripts for job applications - whether for jobs in 1L, 2L, articling, and possibly beyond to an extent. But, undergrad marks are unlikely to be determinative (or to even have any material impact). Law school marks are significantly more important. That said, your undergrad transcript can be a point of discussion in interviews. We might ask people about particularly interesting sounding courses/majors/projects. We once interviewed someone with shockingly low undergrad marks, and shockingly high law school marks, and wanted to know the deal. In that sense, your undergrad transcript can have an effect on your interviews and such, but likely no direct effect on getting hired.
  2. barelylegal

    OSC Interview Advice

    Which branch are you interviewing with? The answer may depend on branch, but I can fairly confidently say that neither course is required before summering there.
  3. barelylegal

    Hireback Summary

    I think I've written on this before, but in my experience, it really all comes down to adding value in whatever way you can. I can list off all kinds of more specific advice. Always meet your deadlines and produce quality work. If you can't meet a deadline, address the issue early enough that a solution can be worked out (it almost always can). Ask appropriate questions - as in, don't ask questions that you could have found on your own with reasonable time/effort, don't spin your wheels looking for an answer to a question instead of asking for guidance, don't take a guess at something and go down the wrong track when you could have just had a brief meeting to check in and avoid the wasted time. Know what your assigned work, research, whatever will be used for and offer to help with the next step. Be the person who's willing to step up for an urgent file requiring late-night or weekend work. Take initiative and seek out work. Generally, just look for ways to get involved and actually care about the work. Be nice to everyone, and self-aware enough to know what you don't know. In short, though, your goal is to be useful and reliable. It sounds simple, but you'd be shocked at how foreign this stuff can be to students. Also important is making sure people know you. I don't know what kind of litigation setting you'll be in, but it's important for people to know who you are - as many as people as possible in the practice group you want to be hired into, if that's how the firm is structured, or the firm in general. The ideal is to have at least a couple of people who know you well and will champion you during hireback discussions, with everyone else at least knowing you and not having negative views. If you are useful and reliable, this will come naturally.
  4. barelylegal

    Advice: Practicality of Juggling Part-time Job with 1L

    I tend to drift from the majority view on the forum on this topic, but I think working part-time during law school, including 1L, is an excellent idea. Sure, law school is new and there'll be some kind of adjustment period, but time management is a really crucial skill and I don't think it's ever too early to hone it. When I started law school, I worked ~5-10 hours/week at a flexible campus job, and was able to balance it against classes and extracurriculars. As I continued through the years in law school, I was working up to ~15-20 hours/week across several jobs that allowed me to schedule time around my own schedule, and was able to balance it with classes and fairly intensive extracurriculars (think time-intensive clinics and moots). Those years really helped me figure out how to manage time, which was invaluable during articling and into practice.
  5. Yes, extracurriculars are important in the 2L recruit, but there aren't specific things that are effectively required in order for someone to be viewed as competitive. Think about why extracurriculars would be important at that stage. The Toronto 2L recruit takes place at the beginning of 2L. By that time, the only courses you've completed are your 1L courses, which are entirely (or nearly entirely? I can't speak for every school) standardized across 1L students. So, beyond your performance in one class over another, there isn't much to tell employers what you're interested in doing. Extracurriculars do that. Interested in criminal, corporate, IP law? Join the criminal, corporate, IP law club and actually participate. Interested in advocacy? Do a moot or clinic. Extracurriculars can show employers what your interests are, and also show that you're capable of balancing commitments beyond your coursework (so when you say in a cover letter that you're good at time management and balancing priorities, you can actually point to something that demonstrates it).
  6. barelylegal

    Salary Negotiation Tips

    1) What? Billable hours, targets, etc. generally apply to litigation settings as well as solicitor. Even if it's not part of an official/communicated policy at your firm, billable hours are just a metric for your financial productivity and I can't imagine your firm would be uninterested in that. 2) The 1/3 formula isn't about your productivity/marketability now vs. later. The general thought is that 1/3 of your billed amount goes to you, 1/3 goes to overhead/expenses, and 1/3 is firm profit. 3) Most medium and large firms in Toronto will cover Law Society fees, but I'm not sure that's so common for smaller firms or outside the city.
  7. barelylegal

    Finding the right career path for me?

    All of your descriptions about what you enjoy - i.e. intellectual interest in law, enjoying writing and sorting through complexities like they're puzzles - would also apply to me. I also enjoyed crim in law school, for similar reasons (the interactions of offences, defences, evidence law, felt like an interesting puzzle), but I never had the real passion or connection with the policy basis of criminal law that I felt my colleagues, who were REALLY into crim, had. So I didn't pursue it. I've found that complex commercial litigation, shareholder disputes and the like, ticks all of the boxes for me. Every case is different, all kinds of interesting legal issues come up, the facts and the law are both complex and you can really be creative in your approach. It's intellectually stimulating and fast-paced, and lots of commercial litigators have a real interest in that intellectual side. It sounds like you might benefit from some coffee meetings with lawyers who practice different areas, to get a sense of what the practice actually looks like. Feel free to message me if you want additional commercial lit perspective.
  8. barelylegal

    Getting a bad grade in Fall 2018

    Absolutely. A B+ likely wouldn't cause any concern at all. A term entirely filled with Cs and Ds (which I have seen before while interviewing) is a different story.
  9. barelylegal

    Getting a bad grade in Fall 2018

    I'm not familiar with the NY process, but I can confidently state that undergrad transcripts often must be submitted as part of OCI/articling job applications, and that some firms will definitely ask questions if they see notably low marks on an undergrad transcript, even where there are much higher marks on the law school transcript.
  10. barelylegal

    2L Summer (2019) Recruit PFOs/ITCs

    Re: saying "first choice" to firms - to be clear, I completely agree that if you tell a firm they're you're first choice, and then that changes, you should not say anything to the first firm. We all know how this process works, and things change over the few days of recruitment. That said, I also don't think you should just tell every firm they're your first choice if it isn't true. Be honest. Those "first choice" words are a tool that can really help you, or lose effectiveness the more you say it. Your interviewers aren't new at this - they'll know if you're just bullshitting or you really mean it. Being upfront, to the best of your ability (with some massaging as needed, of course), will serve you well. For example, here are a couple of things I've encountered over the last few years of student recruitment: - We interviewed someone we really liked, and we asked the student if we were their first choice and if not, the reason / the type of other places they were still seriously considering and why (without asking for specific names of places). The student was very upfront with us - told us they really liked us but there was one other place they were weighing against us, and told us why. We took the opportunity to discuss that a bit, hear about the person's priorities, give additional information about our firm to show how we could fit with those priorities, sell the student on our firm. We ultimately made an offer to that student. - We interviewed someone we really liked, and who clearly really liked us. They told us we were their first choice, on more than one occasion. We made them an offer, and they rejected. After calls wound down, I got an email from the student saying they really enjoyed coming in, could have seen themselves working at the firm and would have loved to work with us, but assessed their priorities through the process and ultimately felt that another firm was best suited for their career goals and priorities. It was a really thoughtful message, and totally understandable. Zero reputational damage arising out of it. All that to say - there are ways of approaching things "honourably" that don't require you to sacrifice self-interest. Just be a nice human and you'll be fine.
  11. barelylegal

    2L Summer (2019) Recruit PFOs/ITCs

    It can definitely happen. Without knowing the interviewing structure of any firm other than my own, I can think of the following possible scenarios: The people who told you that were just a small number of the people on the recruitment committee, and while they might have loved you, more people (or more senior people) really really loved other people. You come back for a second interview and those interviewers are less into you. The firm continues to do first interviews on Tuesday morning, and all those people are beyond stellar and knock you down the list. The firm gets calls on Tuesday afternoon from senior partners of prominent firms, telling them they would be crazy not to hire candidates X, Y and Z. The firm calls one of your references and gets concerning information about you. I have seen all of these things happen in previous student recruitment cycles. I can't comment on how likely any of these are, but there's a reason that students are told to take firms' expressions of interest with a grain of salt.
  12. barelylegal

    2017 Associate Salary Bump (Toronto)

    At that point, you just know enough people at enough firms that the information is accessible to you.
  13. barelylegal

    2017 Associate Salary Bump (Toronto)

    At that point, you're generally beyond the grid structure and in the run-up to partnership. Salary continues to increase, but in a less standardized way.
  14. barelylegal

    Suits for Women

    I wear both black and nude with both black and grey suits, and I see it all the time on others. But, black pantyhose with a black suit can be a lot of black, so I'll generally wear a brighter or lighter coloured shell to counteract it.
  15. barelylegal

    Transfer to another office

    I suspect the reason people have heard that large firms don't hire new calls is because generally, firms will hire out of their articling students instead of hiring an external new call. That's definitely fair, but as @QuincyWagstaff notes, it still happens sometimes - maybe no articling students are interested in or liked by a particular practice group, maybe the firm needs more juniors than they have articling students, maybe there's one substantial project that requires a contract junior which could be leveraged into something else. I'm not sure how common it is for new calls to get large firm jobs, but there are certainly circumstances where it happens. OP, I may be wrong, but your post sounds to me like you're enjoying working at this firm in Toronto and would want to stay absent family matters. If that's right, I can't imagine they would hold your earlier expressed long-term intentions against you; it sounds like that hasn't necessarily changed. Are you hoping for a permanent transfer? Depending on how long you're potentially talking about, it could be possible to transfer temporarily with a view to coming back to the Toronto office at some point, or even to continue working for the Toronto office but work remotely from the Vancouver office (for example, I know someone who worked for a large firm's Toronto office, had to go to London occasionally for work and would set up shop in the firm's London office while there - obviously not for incredibly long time periods, but still). Perhaps meet with your practice group leader, or a partner you have a good relationship with, and discuss what kinds of options could be available.
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