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Panchaea84 last won the day on January 21 2016

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  1. While they should know the difference, that doesn't necessarily mean they do know the difference even at that stage in their lives. Some of the lawyers I spoke to that transitioned out of Biglaw admitted they had no clue what the work was like in that environment until they started actually working at the firm. They quickly realized that it was unsustainable, they hated it, and moved onto to something else that better fit what they wanted out of a career in law. People sometimes make mistakes in their careers and I don't fault them for figuring it out later than when they should have realized it. I think the real shame would be if they remained in that career they hated. I can only speculate, but I would agree with you that having the idea of Biglaw shoved in their face was probably a predominant factor in their decision to apply in the first place. However, I wonder if these same people also applied to the premier firms/agencies that practice areas of law like family or crim during the recruits, but then had to pick Biglaw because those former options didn't pan out well for them and they did not want to deal with the fear of not having articling secured. I am also curious to see if there was a person who actually faced the dilemma of getting an offer from both sides and how they dealt with it. This is where you and I will disagree, because I believe people's personalities and values are not set in stone throughout life. I am of the belief that people's values, personalities, ambitions, dreams and desires can greatly change, even over a period of time such as a single year. Often its some personal epiphany that drives that change. I may be the outlier here, but I have seen some bizarre career changes amongst the professionals I have come across. One in particular practiced corporate securities for about ten years and then did a complete 180 to transition into family law.
  2. I do not disagree at all that starting off in the area of practice is the most logical and easiest route if one wishes to pursue that practice. I also do not disagree generally talented people can transition into multiple areas of practice. However, I think the issue that is overlooked is that some people who start off in big-law and transitioned elsewhere weren't entirely sure what area of law they want to practice in the first place and then this is where the allure of the notion that big-law can set one up for smaller shop practice later starts to run rampant. It's only later on that these same people truly realize what area they wanted to practice, but then as you hinted the path is a lot harder. It's fantastic that the OP has figured out early on which area of law they want to practice, but for others they are still trying to grasp with this issue.
  3. The point I was trying to convey to you is that your experience is not the definitive ruling on a subject - including your views on whether big-law firms convey the maxim that starting big can allow someone to move into a smaller shop. Speaking for myself, some of the big law firms I interviewed with gave answers that aligned with what Diplock mentioned, but I have a suspicion this was partly due to the discussion on historical hireback numbers with those firms being raised.
  4. The underlined portion is precisely what is wrong with this statement. There are students who article at big-law firms and then transition into criminal law, whether working for the Crown or for criminal defense firms. I personally know one Crown attorney in the GTA that went this route and he told me that his articling experience within the litigation department at a big-law firm was quite helpful in landing his current role. There are also a few cases of lawyers starting out in criminal law and then transitioning into big-law later on in their career, mostly in the White Collar defense departments of big-law firms.
  5. Keep us posted on your search. I also know a few classmates that did the LPP and some ended up in great positions with the gov't and in-house. We're all rooting for you!
  6. OP, I have been in your shoes and I had the exact same mindset you had. I got good grades, participated heavily in law school, worked hard and got to the final interview stages with many of the downtown law firms but unfortunately could not secure articling. It also ate away at my confidence and in my case I had huge family problems at the exact same time. Eventually I did find an articling position through a cold application after the bar exam and surprisingly it gave me an opportunity to work in an appellate setting that I was not expecting during articling. Hopefully the advice I can give will help you through this rough patch in your long legal career: 1. Don't isolate yourself from your friends, family or colleagues. I told everyone in my network about my situation and what resulted was a large group of people went to bat for me in finding articling possibilities and putting in a good word for me. My law school professors, associates/partners at firms and a couple of the Bay Street recruiters went above and beyond to help me out. What I learned from that collective effort is that although interviewers may not have seen my true potential, the people that truly mattered already believed in me. I am confident the people in your network will likely be there for you if you ask for the help. 2. Be patient with the process. Some of my classmates did not secure articling until late November-December - surprisingly they ended up at firms they wanted to land at during the OCI process. I have met lawyers who graduated during the 2008 financial crisis, whom did not secure articling for almost a year. Those lawyers are now at mid to large downtown firms and one now runs the litigation department at his firm. With the current pandemic it may delay the hiring process, but once the pandemic subsides you will start to see firms open up their recruitment as they evaluate their post-COVID-19 legal needs. 3. It's okay to feel this way. I have yet to meet a single person that wouldn't feel dejected after putting a lot of effort into something. That being said, there are constructive ways to release your frustration: exercise, talk with mental health counsellors, etc. I have encountered classmates that did not release their frustration in the best of ways and unfortunately it amplified their problem even more because it made people reluctant to help them out. 4. You are already developing a trait that some lawyers do not possess: resilience. This will be useful in your legal career as you will find dealing with setbacks easier to manage. 5. Take a break from the job search for a couple hours in the day. Take up a hobby or do something fun because it will improve your mood. You may not realize this but having a good mood really shows itself in an interview - the same goes for having a bad mood. I know this because one my associate friends interviewed a colleague of mine from another Ontario law school and I learned that mood was the reason why my colleague was rejected - not the grades, experience, etc. Anyways hopefully this helps and keep us posted on the search.
  7. I just got an email from Thornton Grout Finnigan. They are no longer participating in the articling recruit as their summer students have filled their recruitment needs.
  8. I just got the email today from Kronis stating that they are no longer participating but may still hire a student after the formal recruit is over.
  9. MAG Constitutional backed out but Kronis didn't indicate they were backing out when they got my app.
  10. It also depends on who has applied and how the firm evaluates their applicants. Some firms can easily cull the applicants through imposing strict grade cutoffs and therefore review an application well before all of them have been received. Seeing as how KPMG Tax practices a niche area they may have an easier time evaluating applicants because people without an interest in tax would likely not apply and on the firm's side they are probably looking for applicants who have taken tax and did well in it. Firm's may also send out ITC's on a rolling basis.
  11. I myself skipped a couple of the O-week events that I found less interesting for my tastes, it doesn't make a huge difference in my opinion. Within your section at Oz, you will get a mixed bag of different personalities, so you will eventually find the people you best associate with as your friends. I did both studying independently and group studying, but I found that if people did not show up to group studying prepared to discuss about topics, then it became a total waste of time. Obtaining outlines/summaries can be done by making friends with upper-years and asking for theirs. You can also access the Legal and Lit summary database. You may want to follow up on how well the people who wrote those summaries did in those classes before you use them though.
  12. Cruizer your best bet to work in Vancouver would have probably been TRU since there you would have at least learned about the laws of the province and been in even closer proximity to Vancouver firms than either Sask or Dal. Based on the tone of your post I am getting the sense that you are chasing a school based on lay prestige. Since at this point you have already declined your best bet to work in Vancouver you might as well chase that prestige if it gives you some form of personal satisfaction that can only be attained by selecting one school over another. Either way you are going to be flying across the country for interviews. However there is one comment I need to make about your post: You haven't even started law school and you are already making a statement such as this? You have no idea what the abilities of your future classmates are going to be and you are already making the claim that you are going to be better than at least a quarter of your first year class? Don't even get me started about the comment you made implying Dalhousie provides a better quality of education than Saskatchewan. That's some serious arrogance dude.
  13. A lot of people not hearing about the group doesn't also mean that the class is full
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