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Showing content with the highest reputation since 05/14/19 in all areas

  1. 13 points
    Still in total shock, I’ve dreamed about going to Osgoode since high school! Accepted this morning straight from queue via OASIS, went in queue February 27th cGPA: 3.52 LSAT: 144/146/156 ECs: volunteer, work experience, two publications I’ve checked this forum and OASIS daily for two application cycles and my dreams finally came true, don’t give up and stay positive!!
  2. 13 points
    Still can't believe it. Been ugly crying ever since I saw the email this morning. Still feels like a dream I haven't woken up from. cGPA: 3.34 L2: likely anywhere around 3.65-3.8 (I had a part-time course load a few semesters and also took summer courses so I'm not sure how they calculated it). LSAT: 157 (Jan.), 159 (March) ECs: Nothing special, honestly. Volunteered at a couple non-profits that worked with kids, worked throughout undergrad. Feel free to PM me if you'd like to know more. Filled out Part B. I was ready to move to Kingston in the Fall - I'd already provisionally accepted Queen's, but I will be firmly accepting whenever it shows up on OLSAS. Can't wait to meet all you lovely humans in September!
  3. 11 points
    CANT BELIEVE I'M FINALLY MAKING THIS POST. Accepted this morning!! 🤗🤗🤗 3.64 163 890 Walrus: Me Guy with Fish: UVic Law Admissions
  4. 9 points
    Not really. OP has an A-A+ average. It's helpful advice that people give all the time to the folks who lack perspective on their grades, and is a reminder to calm down and not hyperventilate about "going downhill" all the distant way to an A-. There was that one McGill student all over these forums who needed to consistently get that advice because she was having meltdowns about not having a 3.9 or something ridiculous. It is very much overblown that clerks have straight As, because straight As are exceedingly rare and not everyone with the grades to clerk wants to go clerk anyway. I personally would have had a negative view of any of my student peers that had OP's grades and described getting an A- instead of an A or A+ as "downhill" or having to compensate for a single B+. They get ostracized as the grade-grubby, gunner types that lack perspective. You may not like the advice, but it was fairly given to remind someone to keep things in perspective.
  5. 9 points
  6. 8 points
    I disagree with your perspective here. If someone studies law abroad with the intention of working in Canada after, then in most cases, either (a) they didn't have the grades to get into a Canadian law school, or (b) they could have gone to a Canadian law school, but made the choice to go somewhere that is widely known to create hurdles. They accepted the risk, and arguably made a questionable decision. Both circumstances give rise to, I think, a reasonable basis for skepticism. If there are truly unique considerations at play - there wasn't initially an intention to move to Canada and circumstances changed, or something required a move to another country for three years but not longer than that for some reason - those can be expressed in a cover letter, and I think would be taken seriously by an employer. Certainly, my firm has interviewed, and made offers to, articling candidates who went to law school abroad, who had unique considerations. But that's not the case for the majority. I'm also not convinced by your comment about how bad it is "to miss out on productive work from qualified candidates because of incorrect assumptions". Sure, maybe you're passing on a candidate who would have done a good job - but there are plenty of Canadian student options who are equally, if not more, likely to do a good job, without the employer hassle of figuring out how to read/assess foreign credentials.
  7. 8 points
    I don’t think it makes any sense for the OP to take a year off right out of high school to study full-time for the LSAT instead of going to university. That’s terrible advice - s/he shouldn’t even be looking at the LSAT yet. S/he should pick a college based on where they will have the best education and experience and not try to game the system as to where has the easiest marks. I would be shocked if several people from each of the schools the OP listed don’t get into law schools each year.
  8. 8 points
  9. 7 points
    Yes I am satisfied with life, 9 years out of law school. In addition to work I make a real effort to stay connected with old friends and attend social events. I’m happy with my income, over 200, but I work too much. I advise people not to do it for the money but can’t take my own advice. Doing litigation problems keep coming up and people keep throwing money at me to fix those problems. I measure money in terms of the vacations it could buy but I just never get around to taking the vacation. I don’t think I’d choose to be a lawyer again given a second life because I’ve already done it. I’ve accomplished pretty much everything I set out to do, other than argue before the SCC. But if I went back in time of course I would do it again because I needed money and liked to argue. Other jobs I may have been happier in include actor or musician. I guess it’s not too late to switch.
  10. 7 points
    No one has ever cared other than family members and prospective law students. If you do crim work, people will ask for your cool stories, but I’m a corporate lawyer and everyone correctly assumes I have almost no cool stories. Bubbe is very proud her grandson is a big successful lawyer, but she’s also very proud my cousin got a B+ in chemistry, so, you know. My partner tells me I’m handsome, but she says it with that smile that lets you know she omitted the “...in my eyes, on good days”.
  11. 7 points
    When I mention that I'm a law student I generally get some sort of awkward congratulations as if I just cured the common cold and expect a compliment. After this it generally fades and people could care less. On the other hand people that know I'm a law student for some reason expect me to be some sort of intellectual genius in every situation. On one occasion I was made fun of for not fully comprehending the rules of a card game because I'm a "smart law student". Circle that square.
  12. 6 points
    India is slowly getting better now. There's more respect for the lawyers and the judiciary there because, well, India is slowly building a legal system that is tolerably functional (although it's interesting to think about what the causal pathway for this development is; I'm no political scientist, but I'm pretty sure there's a division between social scientists who think economic development -> functional legal system and those who think the converse). I don't think Pakistanis are wrong to disparage law as a vocation. Their experience has been one in which the judiciary is either nakedly political or a toothless tiger. Disillusionment with lawyers and judges is natural and probably justifiable. If anything, I think the West is exceptional in its normative views about law. Most of the rest of the world makes no conceptual distinction between rule of law and rule by law (assuming there is a functional system of law in the first place, which isn't true in, e.g., the tribal areas of Pakistan).
  13. 6 points
    You shouldn’t, med students are idiots. Respect people for their accomplishments, not their credentials.
  14. 6 points
    Go 👏 study 👏 abroad 👏 If it's something you want to do, DO IT. You will learn so much, gain independence, become familiar with a new culture and possibly a new language, and connect with people you never could have otherwise. These are all great things. Your grades for the semesters might be a little bit lower than they would be if you stay home, but ultimately I think that a study-abroad program says more about the type of person you are and the kind of experiences you've had than your GPA alone. You can use all sorts of experiences from your time abroad in your personal statement. I think what you stand to gain is worth much more than what you stand to lose in the couple of hundredths that your overall GPA might drop. As long as you actually study, you should be fine. I say this as someone who did an exchange in her third year. I also had to submit my transcript from that school and my grades abroad were SIGNIFICANTLY lower than my grades in Canada (understandably so; I was taking courses and writing assignments in a different language). I still got in. My only other piece of advice, depending on which country you're going to, is to covet the official transcript they give you. Don't give it away. Definitely don't throw it away. Keep it safe and make some notarized copies to attach to applications.
  15. 6 points
    I have the perfect solution to put this whole LSAT on the resume issue to bed. Instead of putting it on your resume have it tattooed somewhere conspicuous on your body. When the potential employer asks "What does that 180 on your hand mean?" You can then casually slip it into the conversation. "Oh that was my LSAT score. I could have gone to U of T had I wanted"
  16. 6 points
    I am going to say that while the law societies have taken steps to screen foreign lawyers who want to practise in Canada by creating the NCA exams, these exams are not “equivalent” to three years in a Canadian law school. So students going and learning the law of some other country for three years and then writing a handful of exams at the end of it should not delude themselves that they are competitive in terms of being educated on Canadian law (a major consideration for any employer). In my view, the NCA should be about foreign lawyers - people who bring actual experience-based skill sets as practising counsel - coming to Canada for whatever reason: family, work opportunity, etc. That the NCA is now routinely used as a sort of workaround from subpar students who want to backdoor into the Canadian market because they didn’t have the dedication or brains to get the grades/LSAT to get into a Canadian law school is a bad thing. It is not a coincidence that the weakest (and periodically ridiculous) applications I have received from students are predominantly sent in by foreign law school students. Two things: 1. YES there are exceptions. They are exceptional. 2. Access categories at Canadian law schools are an excellent net to catch people who would normally have made the cut but for whatever excellent reason.
  17. 6 points
    it's not drunk driving stupid but it's pretty stupid.
  18. 6 points
    When I would visit my grandmother she would tell every single person who walked into her house that "this is my granddaughter. SHE'S A LAWYER." Using the same tone of voice that one might use to explain that I had cured cancer or landed on the moon. The home care worker or the guy who stopped in to read the hydro meter probably wasn't that interested. She had a grade 8 education and most of her many children barely got their grade 12. She would probably have been just as proud of me if I had married a nice dairy farmer. I used to find it a bit excessive and embarrassing but now that she's gone, it makes me really happy to think she thought the neighbours would be really impressed by her lawyer granddaughter.
  19. 5 points
    I've wanted to answer this question sooner, but I have two predominant reactions. First, I realize that it's been a long time since I met many new people outside of a context that's at least semi-professional. I don't find myself standing around house parties anymore, drinking a beer in a circle of people I've just met, going "so, what is it you do?" Maybe ten years ago I could have cited a string of experiences relating to how people respond to my profession. But not anymore. I actually find myself digging for examples of how anyone new has responded to my job in a long time. My second reaction is, I actually met two new people on the weekend (friends of my wife's family) and most of the time I spent talking with this guy who runs an arts organization. Interesting guy. In some very tangential way what he does and what I do could intersect at some point, and we exchanged cards. It really wasn't a thing at all that I practice law, or that I'm in criminal defence. Although he sat on an interesting jury lately, and without going into specifics (which he can't do) we had an interesting chat about that experience. I guess what I'm saying it, for good or for ill, at some point your social environment narrows a bit and you self-select into relationships with people for whom your job just isn't a big deal. It's useful to simply be a lawyer at times - in politics, in certain professional settings, etc. Half of that is also just having any professional job and being a middle-aged dude in a suit. I don't know if there's a good lesson out of this. It's a very important exercise to remain conscious of how other people respond to you, how you respond to others, etc. Perception and privilege are huge factors at play, here. It's not like saying "I'm a lawyer" is a thing that occurs without context. When I say that, the most common reaction (based on dress, deportment, environment, etc.) is "oh, yeah." But try saying that as a young woman of colour. You'll get a different reaction. And since we aren't going to somehow eliminate bias, privilege, etc. any time soon, the next best option is at least remaining aware of how it all plays out. But yeah, it's a thing for a while. It's weird to think "this is who I am now, and it's how people see me." Then one day, you wake up and it's just normal because that's who you are. Like any life change - getting older, having kids, finding yourself in some unexpected position of authority - it's odd until it isn't. Though I'll admit, I still have moments when I think "I can't believe they let me do this stuff - if only they really knew me." But I've come around to the view that everyone has those moments too, or should. The Pope, the Secretary-General of the UN, our Prime Minister - I truly hope and believe they all have moments when they think "I can't believe they're letting me do this!" I'm sure Trump doesn't have that level of self-reflection. He probably thinks it makes sense that he's President. But that's a whole other issue.
  20. 5 points
    I’ve read this a bunch of times but does anyone have any evidence that it’s true? If I remember right, it’s not the case that 80% of people who want an OCI job at U of T get one. So if 80% of Dal grads who want a Toronto OCI job get one, then Dal is objectively better and we should all start advising people to go to Dal and not go to U of T if they want to work in Toronto. Which obviously sounds pretty stupid. As a related point, I couldn’t begin to imagine what would make anyone think that going to Dal makes a person less ‘cookie cutter’ than going to U of T. I have helped my firm recruit, review and interview and I have never heard anyone involved in the process who thinks that way. Honestly, I can’t think of anything less informative about how unique or intriguing a person is than “what standard school in Canada did you go to”. Also, almost all students who get an OCI offer get one OCI offer. So I’m not quite sure where you’re getting this “you won’t have a problem with any firm” position from.
  21. 5 points
  22. 5 points
    Does anyone else feel anticipation when they see Diplock's name in italics at the bottom of the page?
  23. 5 points
    I think that plenty of people argue that law school doesn't teach you how to be a lawyer, which is a fair claim, but no one can credibly claim that all they learned was critical thinking. It would be delusional to claim that you don't learn a bunch about Canadian law in law school.
  24. 5 points
    Do not write about your family and mental health issues in a cover letter to a job application. Ever. This is not like applying to a school with an access admissions officer. This is a job. Anyway, to answer your actual questions... 1. ECs do not matter much at all unless they’re exceptional, which by definition most people’s aren’t. 2. Lots of successful law students had parental money and no meaningful jobs, so you’ll probably be fine. 3. Remember not to write a resume cover letter about your family’s health issues.
  25. 5 points
    I mean, sure, put your LSAT on your application if you want. It’s weird as heck but you do you. I doubt an employer will have the desired reaction, namely acknowledging that you would have been admitted to a Canadian school but decided to go abroad for other reasons. Instead I think it would double down how unusual a candidate you are. He went to the UK and he puts his LSAT on his job application too. Very strange.
  26. 5 points
    @thedraper Keep in mind that most students will not 'make it to Bay'. Planning on accruing an amount of debt based on the idea that one will, is beyond foolish. That type of debt will affect your life in many ways for all those years. Do you really want to live like a student for three years of law school, a year of articling, then an additional 5-7 years? And that's assuming that you could pay it off that quickly. I've seen grads struggle with less debt than is being stated here, affecting their ability to buy a car, a condo/home, pay for insurance, or a vacation, and if you plan to start a family, well, the expenses will continue to add up. Think long and hard before putting yourself in such a position.
  27. 5 points
    This advice is crazy. How can someone in high school be “certain” they want law school or anything? And how can you compare the ability of someone in third year law to study for the LSAT with that of someone in high school?
  28. 5 points
    To call historic disciplines with centuries of thought and scholarship “fluff programs” is hugely ignorant. Most of your argument is very similarly misinformed. Also, no one has said that UK schools are bad schools. Maybe some of them are but certainly not all of them. It’s just bad from the perspective of becoming a Canadian lawyer. I also don’t buy the 1%/5% argument. Let’s set aside the issue with the fact that admission numbers alone say nothing about how challenging a program is, Canadian law schools only admit students who scored highly in undergrad. UK law schools are first-entry undergraduate degrees, which means they admit students who scored highly in secondary school. So it would make sense the pool is larger and thus the requirements are higher and are relative to the rigour of secondary school.
  29. 5 points
    When I tell people that I'm a lawyer, the reaction is often neutral; maybe because there are so many fucking lawyers in downtown Toronto. But when I tell them that I am a criminal defence lawyer, they're usually more impressed and want to know about the crazy cases that I'm working on. Do I defend murderers? How about sexual assault cases? I don't like to talk about the cases I worked on and definitely not the ones I'm working on right now, but I do recount a few interesting cases I have read recently. With family, I'm one of the less accomplished ones, so nothing impresses them. On a side note, I find that men often ask me if I defend murderers. Women often ask me if I defend those accused of sexual assault.
  30. 5 points
    The only times I'll ever admit I'm a lawyer is to get the best quality service, e.g. "I'll have a hot dog and Orange Crush and I'm a lawyer". As you can imagine, I've never had an undercooked hotdog, and my Crush is never flat. Otherwise, I just tell people I'm a clown.
  31. 5 points
    People look at me and say, "You're lying," and then the jig is up! Because most of the time, I am.
  32. 4 points
    Most people don't care - except for people in my home town. I'm originally from a rural area - and you would think that when people find out I'm an Intellectual Property lawyer it would mean basically nothing to them -- WRONG. Every time my "area of practice" comes up I get into super lengthy conversations about Monsanto. The whole town basically hates me and I've never even actually acted for that company! I guess we're all just painted with the same brush ... let me sob on my big pile of money over here... *sniff*
  33. 4 points
    Hey all, First, shout outs to all the previous guys who’ve done this. Second, as is the trend, here’s a mega thread for all you greasy incoming 1Ls. Feel free to post any questions you have about Osgoode, studying habits, living in North York, etc. Whatever you want. You can also PM me if you don’t want to post anything here.
  34. 4 points
    This is what it boils down to: law is jurisdictional. Anyone who seriously suggests to me that they are competent to practice criminal law after graduating from a school where they did not learn about the Charter or about Canadian jurisprudence or about Canadian criminal procedure or about the Rules of Evidence in a Canadian courtroom deserves to get laughed out of my office. ...except they won’t. Because they won’t get an interview. I want some one qualified for the job. Not some one who spent three years learning the law of another country and then wrote a single exam for the NCA on Canadian criminal law. The competition - literally any graduate of a Canadian law school - has them beat from the start. That is just reality.
  35. 4 points
    Can anyone actually summarize (a) what this argument is even about, at this point, and (b) how this discussion serves any rational purpose? As typically happens, there's one person railing against the supposed unfairness of attitudes towards foreign law schools. In this case, that person apparently has multiple offers to Canadian law schools. My advise to Lyaiey is pretty darn easy. Go to a Canadian law school. Because trust me, you're not going to get far in interviews, when you're trying to find a job, protesting that you could have gone to a Canadian law school. I've read applications from NCA students that come with cover pages trying to explain to me how they are now just as good as Canadian graduates and why/how they are now eligible to article. I don't fault them for the effort. They don't really have any choice at this stage. But the overall effect is still sad. Independent of providing good information to Lyaiey (and anyone else who happens to be reading this) I don't know what the point of arguing over this even is. This site excels at conveying information. Sometimes the information will be hard to pin down definitively because it's subjective. Just how much of an issue will it be to go to a moderately reputable foreign law school? Opinions as to the severity of this problem will differ. But we all agree it's some kind of a problem and an utterly avoidable one. So the advice that follows is easy and obvious. Outside of providing accurate information, arguing here (or anywhere else, on the Internet) is just masturbation with a keyboard. The stigma exists. Even if you convince me that it shouldn't exist, it still does. These conversations are about as useful as the frequent discussions I have with clients where instead of hearing about how to navigate the legal problems they are experiencing, they really just want me to tell them about how it's totally wrong the problem exists in the first place. And I have no interest in these conversations. They serve no purpose and contribute to nothing at all. And just one final time, for anyone who happens to care. As someone who actually practices law in an area where foreign NCA graduates tend to gravitate (they gravitate to any kind of sole practice, really) I can easily see the difference. It isn't a universal rule that foreign graduates turn into bad lawyers, if they end up practicing law at all. But it's a strong enough trend that it's readily apparent to almost anyone who looks at it. This is my lived, professional experience. Can you imagine how much weight I give to the opinion of some would-be law applicant who wants to argue I've got it wrong?
  36. 4 points
    Can we just agree that however you care to describe the work that you do (and that I do also, let's recall) it isn't what the OP wants to do, and his primarily concern right now isn't learning about how cool criminal defence is.
  37. 4 points
    When I was a kid, I thought journalists and politicians were the smartest people out there. When I got a bit older, I thought it was doctors, lawyers and professors. More recently, I realized that someone's profession says a whole lot less about them than I thought it did.
  38. 4 points
    I guarantee you that your criminal law education was very different.
  39. 4 points
    Cool. Thanks. Boy, you have some great contributions to this forum, don't you?
  40. 4 points
    Very cool. https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/supreme-court-travel-winnipeg-1.5077243
  41. 4 points
    Without being snide, it really boils down to this. Unless I'm drastically missing something here, you are asking about foreign law schools exactly because you fear you won't gain admission to any Canadian programs. And then you are saying "but what if I go to a program that's hard to get into?" By definition you are asking about programs that are accepting Canadian applicants that aren't getting into any domestic law schools. By definition they have weaker admissions standards. How in the world are you going to find a program that accepts students who don't get in anywhere in Canada, but still has strong admission standards? I believe the source of this double-think is that students applying to these programs prefer to believe that rather than applying lower standards, these schools are just ... I don't know, fairer, broader-minded, more imaginative ... than law schools in Canada? As in "I didn't get into a school with lower standards - I just got into a school more willing to see the real me!" Well, you can believe that if it makes you feel better. But fundamentally, when you try to tell me that at a job interview, all I hear is "I believe that I know better than the Deans, Faculty, and Admissions Committees at all Canadian law schools what a good law student should look like." And in reply to that attitude I think "I prefer to hire someone who is confident, but not someone who is arrogant to the point of self-delusion." The choice to attend a foreign law school, if you have exhausted other options, is complex. It's not necessarily a bad decision. But one final time. If you honestly hope that most Canadian employers are going to be bamboozled by the school's name and imagine that you went to LSE for some reason other than a lack of domestic options, it's not likely to happen. And once it's agreed that an employer is going to look at your application and think "couldn't get into any law school in Canada" they aren't likely to follow that thought with "good thing they got into a law school where they do a better job of selecting strong applicants than all us stupid Canadians!" And yes, for the record. It's harder to get into Windsor law school than it is to get into any of U of T's supposedly "prestigious" undergraduate programs. Any law school in Canada requires at least a moderately strong LSAT and a GPA that reflects a record of achievement for multiple years of undergraduate study. No one in the real world imagines that's easier than collecting strong grades for a couple of years in high school.
  42. 4 points
    I thought I would chime in in regards to the idea that you need to aim for a 164+ to have a shot as an access candidate. Of course, you should aim to do as well as possible on the LSAT, but your score will not be the be all and the end all of your application. I believe that admissions committees are interested in candidates who have persevered through hardships as it sounds like you have. Even with a 3.12 CGPA, I believe that you would be given consideration by holistic schools with an average LSAT score, combined with a well crafted application and good academic references from people who see your potential. I scored a 157 on the January LSAT (I bombed the Logic Games), and my CGPA as calculated by OLSAS was 3.29 -- it was quite low due to extenuating circumstances in my fourth year, which I detailed on my application -- so I was anxious about my prospects. I was recently admitted to Osgoode and, with the exception of Western, I have not been rejected from any Canadian schools (I didn't apply to BC schools, Lakehead, Windsor, or to U of T). I am confident that my application is being given careful consideration by the schools I have yet to hear from. Basically, do your best on the LSAT, be confident in what you bring to the table as an applicant and aim to have that come across on your application, and most importantly don't compare yourself too much to others on this forum in terms of stats and what people say is or isn't possible. Good luck!
  43. 4 points
    My grandmother hates lawyers. When I graduated, she sent me a card that said "I hope you're happy now." She still included 10 bucks, though! Same thing she's included since my 10th birthday...
  44. 4 points
    On a semi-serious note, whatever deference I receive in the future if I ever tell someone that I'm a lawyer, (if I get to that point), will be a million times better than telling someone I'm a philosophy major.
  45. 4 points
    I. Am. Not. Arguing. Perceived. Difficulty. Adcoms state they don't give AF. Not sure wht that translates to 0Ls as "muh science degreeeeeeee".
  46. 4 points
    Just deferred my admission to Fall 2020, opened up a spot for someone this fall!
  47. 4 points
  48. 3 points
    We had a meeting and decided that because Dal is so well-known, it must remain a total secret.
  49. 3 points
    Why waste an entire year when he or she can just study for it for 6-8 weeks like a lot of folks? I wrote mine after 3rd year undergrad and just studied from shortly after the end of the semester until whatever day I wrote the exam in early June. Wasting a year before undergrad studying for the LSAT is an astronomically terrible idea. Especially since LSAT will expire 5 years later, and when they may not even be eligible or want to go to law school after studying in undergrad. There's a lot of stupid ideas on the forum but this one really ranks at or near the top.
  50. 3 points
    Just got in off the waitlist!
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