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  1. 27 points
    I think it's more common during articles.
  2. 26 points
  3. 26 points
    I don't mean to derail this conversation any more, but "work your ass off" means very different things for those who come from an extremely financially stable background vs. those who don't. It's a lot easier to "get into university, maintain a high GPA, pass the LSAT, get into law school, maintain good grades in law school, kill articling interviews, work yourself to the grindstone during articling, pass the bar" when you don't have to worry about financial burdens. utmguy is not guilty - he/she is just recognizing that he/she had it better than other people. No need to lambaste someone acknowledging that.
  4. 25 points
    Each year at Dal, they gathered us in the atrium and offered everyone who wasn't interviewed by either Stikeman Elliott or an appellate court near the Laurentian river as a sacrifice to the ghost of JSD Tory. This helped ensure that school's recruiting numbers stayed high. I only escaped by hiding in the basement under a fort made of old McGill guides and feeding on scraps that fell from wine and cheese events above. Needless to say, 2L and 3L grades felt functionally meaningless, given that the only two options were (1) a life of work on Bay St. following your first year of law school or (2) literal death.
  5. 25 points
    Some people may tell you, at times, that you should regularly acknowledge your privilege when you have it. I'm not one of them. What you choose to acknowledge, or not, if your business, and people who shove your face in it at inopportune times are assholes. However, if someone else chooses to acknowledge their privilege, and you are triggered simply by hearing that, then you have become the asshole in the exchange. Big time. I'm not even going to refute your ignorance. I'll choose another time and place. You don't need to agree with every commonplace fact to function as a lawyer - and yes, the existence and nature of "privilege" if not its absolute contours is a commonly acknowledged fact - but you do need to be able to hear things you don't agree with without completely losing control of your sense of the appropriate. You're responding to an off-hand comment, and objecting simply to hearing someone else offer perspective on their own life. Right, wrong, or otherwise, someone else's perspective on their own life is none of your fucking business - even if they were wrong and you're right. Neither of which are true here, btw. Grow the fuck up.
  6. 24 points
    I don't want to derail this thread and wasn't going to comment further, but this just irked me quite a bit. Do you know that immigrants and first generation Canadians are flooding professional school programs like medicine, dentistry, and law? Something they all have in common is that they worked hard (very hard) to be there. You yourself admitted to not working harder in undergrad. I came from a relatively poor background and was working multiple jobs in undergrad while commuting 4 hours to university everyday. I went to Osgoode and got into a number of other schools as well. My parents came to Canada with nothing and could not afford to pay for my education even if they had wanted to. Yet you have the luxury of travelling abroad for law school and are calling the people here who worked their asses off to get into Canadian programs elitists...tell me, who is actually privileged - you or me? If I did not get into a Canadian law school, my legal aspirations were done. I took out OSAP and a student line of credit at prime interest rate to pay for the whole thing. I depended on bursaries from my law school. While you can take out a line of credit to attend a foreign school, you need a co-signer with good credit (which I did not have) and the interest rates are high. Scotiabank just recently stopped giving out loans to students travelling abroad altogether. We need to stop these kinds of nonsense statements in its tracks. I see it a lot from my friends and peers who went abroad for law school. Something they all have in common is that they come from money, are well-connected, and they didn't work as hard as us elitists in undergrad to get into a Canadian school. But, hey, bring out the banners and march on the streets because us elitists are blocking them access to these "high paid jobs" to maintain the status quo.
  7. 24 points
    I too struggled with answering this question. There are certainly elements of my life with which I am very satisfied, and law is a defining part of it. I'm very satisfied with my job, with what I do everyday, with the people I work with, with the people I work for, and the compensation I get for it. I am also satisfied with my general position in life. Growing up, I was repeatedly told that I was a failure, I would not amount to anything, and that people like me don't enter this profession. Everyday I can wake up and do what I do as a massive "fuck you" to the people who said I couldn't or shouldn't do it. That is pretty satisfying for me. But at the same time (and mindful of potentially stepping into the cesspool created by Mycousinsteve) I do feel guilty about my success. I am incredibly conscious of the fact that I earn now as a young lawyer what my father was earning, after a lot of struggle, at the peak of his career. My mother works a close-to-minimum-wage job and works way harder than I do, but I charge 20+ times more than she makes an hour. Something just seems off about that sort of discrepancy. I get it that I am smart (relatively speaking) and that has its market value; but I wouldn't say that it is all effort and no luck of the draw. I just happen to retain and understand more information than the average person, am able to direct that towards seemingly useful ideas, and am able to express those ideas in a coherent and polished way. All of that means that I get to live way better than my parents ever could. So when I take my parents to a nice restaurant, I am equal parts satisfied that I can take them to that place, but also guilty that more value has been placed in me than them because of some random combination of values.
  8. 23 points
    ALEXANDER How can I, bastard, orphan son of a whore And a Scotsman, dropped in the middle of a forgotten spot in the Caribbean By providence, impoverished, in squalor, become a fancy Osgoode Haller? DIPLOCK I get it, young man, no doubt you've seen your share of strife But's there's this thing I call the Fallacy of the Perfect Life Your dad's gone - that sucks, but it's not a claim for Access How's that gonna explain your repeated mediocre LSATs? Yeah, so, if the shoe fits wear it Your application sucks but you've got years to repair it And if you make that effort I sure do wish you the best, sir But don't you fucking come back here and ask 'bout going to Leicester
  9. 22 points
    For those of us who are already forced, ethically, to do pro bono work for vulnerable clients, I'll lower any remaining boundaries and say this is a fucking disgrace. A fucking disgrace we all could see coming--but, nonetheless, a fucking disgrace. The reactionary bullshit of "Well, don't commit a crime then," is just too much to handle after a long and difficult week. I don't want to believe things are that bad. Though I know they are. My LAO clients (and the ones who can't even get LAO) are the most vulnerable and marginalized persons likely to die in the ditch they're calling home. To suggest that they set their own trials and advocate their own Charter defences and/or factual defences is a sick joke. I'm tired of this. I can see how my clients live before they die at 35. Hey, no problem paying a Crown $200,000 to prosecute some homeless and mentally ill person. But I guess our government draws the line at paying a lawyer (maybe even now a duty counsel lawyer) a pittance to defend that client. We'll see how these cuts shake out--what services are cut, what jobs are slashed. From what I've seen working in courthouses 5 days/week, there's no "fat." Maybe it'll be the entire non-CCC (i.e. refugee/immigration/landlord-tenant) wing. Who knows. I see duty counsel run off their feet in every jurisdiction. I guess we'll see. It's goddamn sad.
  10. 21 points
    Without wading into the underlying debate, I just wanted to specifically respond to this comment because I couldn't have said it better. Although I'm only a 2019 call, so I don't want to derail this, I just managed to secure a better than expected associate position in a niche area of law in a small practice group with colleagues who seem to just be all around great people. And from the ground running I will be making way more than my grandparents ever did, who both worked in a factory for 50+ years while raising me as a kid, and now experience real health problems from how hard they had to work in less than ideal conditions, with never having anything like a financial cushion (one of my grandparents was an orphan, the other the oldest of 12). When I get them simple gifts, like craft coffee beans or other things they like, I literally have to rip off the label and say it bought it on sale or they will not use it because it is "too good for them." I really wish life could be more fair, but it isn't, and so I'm just thankful for what I have and trying to be a more open-hearted person in the process.
  11. 20 points
    associate: "sir madam" partner: "My lords and ladies" managing partner: "Your highness"
  12. 17 points
    Echoing Diplock, and adding my own perspective: our parents did us no favours by saying we could be whatever we want to be. It just ain’t so. I also think that tagging along on that myth is the impossible expectation that The Right Career Solves Everything. That somewhere out there is your dream job (this parallels the everyone has one soul mate myth). The truth is there are a bunch of jobs that have the potential to be your dream job - but they take goddamn work. They take sacrifice. They take days or weeks or months of slogging away to learn the thing before you feel confident, successful, respected. And then some years before I think you can really classify that as a settled degree of happiness or satisfaction with life overall. Yes, committing to a specific path over time is a risk, but so is every other damn thing including marriage or kids. I think one of the things we all struggle(d) with in our 20s is that there is no immediate feedback loop of validation. There is no burst of applause -or chorus of boos - when you make your decisions each step of the way. There’s no soundtrack telling you if you’re about to enter the Success/Wealth/Friends Montage versus the For God’s Sake Don’t Go In there! Montage. So you go wary, and question, and dawdle, and backtrack, and panic, and feel paralyzed. I am satisfied right now. I am also in a space where the stresses of the job have led to serious consideration of a sabbatical. Because my job isn’t Everything, and never will be - and the best advice I have to the Me of twenty years ago is: make sure you have room for something else in your long life, because happiness comes and goes and hinging it on work alone is asking for a breakdown.
  13. 17 points
    I did the LPP. It's an 8 month program (Late August to Late April). You spend 3 weeks in-person at Ryerson (last week August, second week October, and mid-December) and the rest of the 4 months is done online via a 4 or 5 persons virtual law firm with a supervising lawyer. You have two supervising lawyers in the program. One from late August to mid-October and the second from mid-October to mid-December (when the classroom component ends). You complete work in many areas of law including business, administrative, criminal, civil litigation, wills and estates, real estate, family, construction, and professional responsibility. It is the best preparation if you want to be a sole practitioner or run your own law firm someday. You learn practice management skills and docket your hours daily. You do real legal work in the program (in a mock environment of course), so I think it could be better than a lot of articling positions out there that have you only doing research and fetching Joe's coffee. Personally, I think it's too many areas of law to cover in just a 4 month time period. And as someone who went to a Canadian law school and did practicals in law school, I didn't find this component to be as beneficial as others who never worked in a practical legal environment and wanted to brush up on their Canadian law in various areas. If you know that you want to do business or criminal for example, you might find it frustrating to have to learn family, admin, civil, etc. Now, let's come to the real juice that everyone wants to know about - the placements. In the first or second week of July, the LPP will release a list of summer employers you can apply to (around 40-60 positions total). They hold interviews in mid-August. These positions are harder to get because there are 230-250 students applying for them. The remaining positions will trickle out throughout August-December. Almost all of them are paid, but what the LPP doesn't tell you is that almost none hire back and they pay $15/hr - so minimum wage. There are in-house corporations, major banks, some Biglaw firms, government, general firms, soles, etc. Overall, I'd say 70-80% of the placements are paid, but most pay minimum wage or close to it. I did not have a problem with this though since it is only for 4 months (for most people at least). Here is the biggest catch all though with the LPP placements. You must accept all interviews and must accept your first offer received (they encourage you to apply broadly so that you can ensure you secure a position). So it does not matter if your dream job in New York comes calling a day later if Joe's General Firm in the middle of nowhere offers you a position first. Failure to abide by the LPP rules may result in serious consequences, including not being allowed to apply for further placement employers or completing the program. You can see the list of employers for the previous years here - http://www.lpp.ryerson.ca/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/LPP-Program-Overview-Candidate-Feb-2019b.pdf (pages 8-17). The best placements are highly competitive to land of course. This past year we had heavy competition for the financial institutions and corporations, government, and Blakes. The split in the program is around 60-40 - foreign law school graduates to Canadian law school graduates. Many of the foreign trained lawyers in the program have extensive work experience and credentials; there were law professors, MBA graduates and PhDs and many whom have practiced law in other countries prior to coming to Canada. The LPP is the path of least resistance for them (like how OCIs and articling recruit are the path of least resistance for Canadian law students). You often hear about Canadian law school grads in the program complaining about how the placement rate was not what they expected. It's because they were not competitive candidates, to begin with, and are now competing with foreign trained law graduates who have years of experience on them. Employers view the Canadian who went to Bond very differently from that person who was born and raised in the Middle East or Asia, went to law school there, and maybe even practiced law. I hustled and landed something pretty great in the program and was also hired back by my employer. Most of my peers were not so fortunate and most placement employers do not hire back their students because to them it's akin to a co-op program and the in-house teams are small and hire experienced lawyers generally (from the Biglaw firms). The program is what you make of it like anything else. I would definitely take a good, paid articling job over the LPP program (10-12 months articling is better than a 4 month placement in my strong opinion); however, the LPP program is a solid alternative if you want to take a chance and don't have good articling prospects. Anyone want further information about the program, feel free to PM me.
  14. 16 points
    That's the right attitude. It's the system, man, that's keeping you down. If only they would stop judging you based on the fact that you haven't been very successful to this point in school, you'd just be so much more successful in the future. God damn elitists, letting in students based on their past performance, and not on how much they really really really really know they'd be great lawyers.
  15. 16 points
    Not sure where you're getting your info from. I watch this documentary about lawyers called Suits and they yell at each other all the time.
  16. 16 points
    Still can't believe it. Been ugly crying ever since I saw the email this morning. Still feels like a dream I haven't woken up from. cGPA: 3.34 L2: likely anywhere around 3.65-3.8 (I had a part-time course load a few semesters and also took summer courses so I'm not sure how they calculated it). LSAT: 157 (Jan.), 159 (March) ECs: Nothing special, honestly. Volunteered at a couple non-profits that worked with kids, worked throughout undergrad. Feel free to PM me if you'd like to know more. Filled out Part B. I was ready to move to Kingston in the Fall - I'd already provisionally accepted Queen's, but I will be firmly accepting whenever it shows up on OLSAS. Can't wait to meet all you lovely humans in September!
  17. 15 points
    As someone who is the best, let me tell you it is equally hard to accept the outright overcrowding of plebes and n00bs out there cluttering up the world with inferiority. Two sides of the same coin I say. Best thing to do is just drown out the noise by putting more feathers in my cap. I often enter competitions I know in advance I'm going to win just for the taste of victory. Because no matter how sour there's always that pinch of sweet that reminds me nobody can ever surpass me; my perch atop success mountain is sturdier than any oak. I don't know if that answers your question.
  18. 15 points
    This is a tricky one and you can choose to deal with it formally or leave it be. Only you know your own comfort level and wishes here, and I am not going to give you advice on which your choice should be... I will just outline what some of them are. If you are a student, you can go to some one in your school who deals with career services to explain what has happened to you. You can tell them if you would like to make a formal complaint to the law society, or you can tell them that you are just notifying the school so no future students are directed to this firm. If you are a law student you can contact the law society yourself or you can look up and speak to a bencher. There is also the link already provided which gives better and more specific info. If you find this has really affected your confidence or mood or outlook, you can seek out support through friends or family or school facilities. If you are applying through the NCA process then the law society is also a good resource to explore your options. And if you need to hear it, this asshole is a pig and a disgrace to the profession. He is not alone but he is not the majority either. He’s an utter shit for doing this to you and if it helps, to paraphrase Churchill, tomorrow you will wake up as the same fundamentally decent person you have always been and he will still be an utter shit. Chin up, whatever you do.
  19. 15 points
    You didn't even look for articles?!? Because it was took much work and no one would offer you a guarantee? Holy hell. Look. It's possible to go through the LPP system and come out on the other side okay, but you've got to be willing to hustle. You've got to want it. And by the sounds of things, you can't even be bothered to an ordinary degree, much less an extraordinary degree. Articles are a job. You apply to them, you get interviews, you may or may not get hired afterwards. That's the employment market, for everyone who isn't rich or guaranteed a spot in the family business where Uncle Larry won't fire you no matter how much you suck. Everyone else puts in the effort, without any guarantee of outcomes, and accepts that's life. Without being any harsher than I've already been, you need to get your priorities straightened out. Because there won't be a job waiting for you on the other side of this, no matter how you go about it. What you do is stop sitting on your ass, and hustle. Because I guarantee most of your competition is doing so, and no one wants to hire the guy (or gal) who can't be bothered doing shit on their own, because it seems like too much effort.
  20. 15 points
    CANT BELIEVE I'M FINALLY MAKING THIS POST. Accepted this morning!! 🤗🤗🤗 3.64 163 890 Walrus: Me Guy with Fish: UVic Law Admissions
  21. 14 points
    If you weren't the gold medallist, aren't you used to not being the best? Just apply the same mindset.
  22. 14 points
    Law school taught me that not all lawyers are smart people, and not to expect otherwise.
  23. 14 points
    Still in total shock, I’ve dreamed about going to Osgoode since high school! Accepted this morning straight from queue via OASIS, went in queue February 27th cGPA: 3.52 LSAT: 144/146/156 ECs: volunteer, work experience, two publications I’ve checked this forum and OASIS daily for two application cycles and my dreams finally came true, don’t give up and stay positive!!
  24. 13 points
    I wish to contribute to this thread usefully, and I haven't done so yet. I've read this multiple times and wondered what useful observations I could possibly offer, and I keep coming back to the inherent complications of the question. I never expected to attend post-secondary education at all. The vague sense of its possibility was in my world-view, but not at all the assumption that exists in many families. Neither of my parents completed university, though they toyed with it. None of my grandparents attended at all. I have cousins who went to school, but that's a bit different. I didn't start moving towards this career at all until I was older, in large part simply because it seemed inaccessible to me. And yes, I'm gesturing to privilege here, but not to continue the debate. The truth is, merely by entering into a respected profession, with all it entails, I've wildly exceeded both my own anticipated path in life and the expectations of everyone around me. There's some more personal stuff in there, but I prefer to be vague. Let's just say that anyone looking at where I was in my late teens and early 20s would never, ever, have put money on me ending up where I am now. I work way too much, and that's impacting my satisfaction right now and my relationship with my family. It's not something that anyone is doing to me. It's inherent in the way my practice is set up. You'd think I could wrestle it to the ground, since it's my own damn practice, but it's easier said than done. Being your own boss means that your boss is always there, critical of how you spend every free hour. I have absolutely got to get this shit under control and I haven't yet. I'm immensely satisfied with my ability to create change in the world. My practice is starting to get specialized. I'll decline to say exactly what I do or how it creates change, but let's just say I see it in very immediate terms. And sometimes it's just about taking on causes and arguments that no one else cares about, on behalf of clients in unusual circumstances, but I have already had enough success that I consider my time very well invested in what I do and I have plans to do much, much more. That's both motivating and satisfying. I was thinking about this when this very thread went sideways - the questions of "satisfaction" and also "what the fuck are people (including me) doing in this discussion thread" got unavoidably intertwined. And the answer, really, comes down to this. People think it's a good reason to go to law school if they "like to argue" and we all know how stupid that is. But there is a truth that's close to that. I like to win arguments. And I only argue about things that matter to me. I don't do it for fun. I don't even find it fun. But I derive immense satisfaction from making things better, and most often to do that you need to win an argument somewhere, with someone. I really like that - not for the argument itself, but for the change that follows. I like the act of building something that's mine. This isn't about legal practice but about a similar, related concept I've discussed before - entrepreneurship. Being a lawyer is inherently entrepreneurial for almost everyone. For me, most than most. I believe my practice has spun in this direction in large part because it's a skill I have and an enthusiasm for me. If I were less entrepreneurial, I'd probably have sought work for someone else. Even when the work I do is relatively mundane and mechanical, the fact that I'm doing it in service of my own practice makes a big difference. I could go on at great length, but I'm reasonably sure I'm satisfied. I'm also very restless. I'm at an age where I'm acutely aware of just how short my career will really be, and how brief my window of peak effectiveness. I want to do things. To the degree that satisfaction implies feeling peaceful, I'm really not there and probably never will be. That's a question to ask again at the very end of my career. Anyway, hope that's something to work with.
  25. 13 points
    It's almost as if "benefiting from privilege" and "working hard" are not mutually exclusive concepts. Woah.
  26. 13 points
    This forum is meant to assist lawyers and articling students, you are neither. It is not acceptable for you to give bad professional advice and contradict senior members of the bar of BC.
  27. 13 points
    From the Law Society of BC Website: "Neither the articled student nor the principal should terminate articles without a report from each party being made to the Law Society and, unless the termination was by mutual agreement of you and your principal, the matter will be referred to the Credentials Committee.
  28. 13 points
    Called in 2012, working as a lawyer in the public sector. Really couldn't have hoped for things to be better at this stage in my career. Total compensation is around $146K (that figure includes pension and health benefits). Work-life balance is quite reasonable - occasional evening and weekend work but rarely anything that interferes with other plans. The work is consistently interesting and has a meaningful impact. My colleagues are fantastic. That said, I have been fortunate in a lot of ways: I got an articling position at my top choice employer, starting immediately after law school. My law school grades were probably around the median so that's hardly guaranteed. After articling I was hired back. Only about 30% of my articling class was hired back (although I suppose some may have chosen not to). When it felt like the right time for a change in my work, there were internal opportunities available for a move. I have not been disadvantaged by racism or sexism. Certainly knowing the outcome I got, I absolutely would become a lawyer again. That said it's easy to imagine things turning out very differently, so I'm not going to turn my experience into a general recommendation to others.
  29. 13 points
    Yes I am satisfied with life, 9 years out of law school. In addition to work I make a real effort to stay connected with old friends and attend social events. I’m happy with my income, over 200, but I work too much. I advise people not to do it for the money but can’t take my own advice. Doing litigation problems keep coming up and people keep throwing money at me to fix those problems. I measure money in terms of the vacations it could buy but I just never get around to taking the vacation. I don’t think I’d choose to be a lawyer again given a second life because I’ve already done it. I’ve accomplished pretty much everything I set out to do, other than argue before the SCC. But if I went back in time of course I would do it again because I needed money and liked to argue. Other jobs I may have been happier in include actor or musician. I guess it’s not too late to switch.
  30. 13 points
    Accepted this morning! Over the moon excited. CGPA 3.12 L2 3.5 LSAT: 151, 154, 161 My letter was tailored to Windsor, i have strong EC's, two academic references, and legal work experience My second acceptance, I was admitted to Bora Laskin Facutly of Law on April 15th, 2019. I am a bit torn between the two, I feel as though Bora Laskin Facutly of Law has a very unique program, especially with the IPC program. I'm going to have to do some serious thinking. I also wanted to say that I have been a LONG time lurker on this forum. I bombed the LSAT twice and never in a million years thought I could score above a 150. I also was rejected from every single law school I applied to last year, and this year I received so far, two acceptances. Do not ever think this achievement is out of your reach. I was one of those people who would read posts like this and thought It would never be me. It takes hard work, dedication and discipline but you will get there. Congrats to everyone accepted and good luck to those waiting.
  31. 13 points
    I love it when the students who haven't even started law school yet manage to agree with one another that everyone else on this site doesn't know what we're talking about.
  32. 13 points
    You're free to do whatever works for you, obviously, but to me this is the kind of thinking that has law students and early call lawyers relying on substances, developing eating disorders and generally just falling psychologically to shit. You cannot, you cannot, you cannot subject every decision you make, every day, to some kind of obsessive "will this help me get a job one day!" analysis. You just can't. For the love of God, join a club or don't join a club based on whether or not you're interested in participating in that club. Volunteer or don't volunteer for some rep position based on the same reasoning. Should you do some things in law school, over and above memorizing your textbooks? Yes, of course you should - but that's because I would expect anyone who wants to actually practice law would find that interest comes naturally. If it doesn't, you should be trying to figure out if you're in the right field at all, or perhaps angling towards legal academia (at which point presumably you've become more interested in RA positions, publishing, law journals, etc.). Stop thinking of this as an artificial process. Do the things that naturally interest you and your natural interest rather than the accumulated weight of bullet points on your CV is what will lead to some opportunity down the road. I'm further down the road than most on this forum, at this point, and trust me, it doesn't change. By that I mean, part of the justification used by anxiety-prone law applicants, law students, early call lawyers etc. is some version of "just for now" thinking. As in "just for now" I'm going to put aside the things that actually matter to me, and concentrate on doing all the things that I figure are going to help me get to X. And then when I get to X, I'll have all the time and leeway and money I need to really be myself and get back to what matters. Except X never comes. It never, ever, ever comes. There's always a new goalpost, always a new justification, always a new "just for now" objective, and at some point you wonder how the fuck your life turned into something you don't even recognize anymore. Be who you are. Concentrate on what you actually care about. Pursue the goals that genuinely matter to you, for the right reasons, right now. Because if you don't do it now, you never will. And believe it or not, all of the most accomplished people I know followed this advice, whether consciously or otherwise. Meanwhile, all of the people giving you this advice based in "the job market is tight, everything is competitive, do anything and everything you can to look better, don't waste your time on trivialities..." those people are themselves just trying to hang on by their fingernails, and the advice they are giving you comes in large part from their own anxiety. So why the heck are you listening to them? Anyway. Good luck everyone - whatever you do.
  33. 13 points
    Unless they paying your bills, pay them bitches no mind.
  34. 12 points
    Talk about how you believe workplace policies have become unreasonably restrictive when it comes to relationships between lawyers and students.
  35. 12 points
    Maturity. You'll grow out of it. Or ultimately burn yourself out. It's not a healthy mentality. There are many metrics. Are you the best because of billing? High numbers doesn't mean that you necessarily did a good job. Are you the best because of a really awesome outcome on a deal? Did you burn a bridge while taking a hard line stance to get that awesome deal? Are you the best because 3 partners like you? Meaningless if judges roll their eyes when you walk in. There is more to life than your job. Focus on doing a good job. Be proud of what you do. There is a balance though. Focusing on one area (like your job) can be detrimental to other areas (family, relationships and self care).
  36. 12 points
    I'm honestly not trying to be snarky here. But if you're really acting the way you describe here (poking holes in what your mom's friend thinks about Celine Dion, saying "tell it to your therapist, this is completely irrelevant to me"), then you are going to do a lot of damage to your personal and professional reputation. If I heard a 1L talking like that, I wouldn't think they're confident and analytical. I'd think they're an arrogant prick. I'd avoid them. And if given the choice to work with them, I'd be concerned that they lack the basic social skills to function in an office environment and navigate a client relationship.
  37. 12 points
    I did it. Articled at a medium sized firm in Ottawa, came back to Toronto chasing after Toronto clients. I had a P1 license prior to my L1 and I had had a small paralegal practice so I felt relatively comfortable with practice management. I also felt more comfortable this city. While at it I heard that a retiring real estate lawyer was looking to hand his practice down to someone with zero experience, that he would train, in real estate transactional work. That lured me in. I started adding mortgage enforcement to his practice as he was only a solicitor and did that for a year while I learned real estate solicitor work. I brought in clients and pretty much paid for my own salary. I asked for a raise and was given some made up excuse as to why not. That was a bit upsetting. To top it all off the original understanding that he would hand his practice to me and retire changed when his almost 40 yr old son got into law school so they hinted the deal was off. I decided to then pack my crap and went out on my own again. Two key big lender clients to whom I was also serving with mortgage enforcement litigation contacted me for file updates and I advised that I had left the firm. They decided to keep all of their lit files with me and now have me doing their transactional work as well. When I started I did so from my one bedroom rental apartment. I work extremely long hours Monday to Sunday but almost a year later I am happy to report that I have been so lucky and done so well I now employ two girls, was able to pay off my entire school debt and purchased my own commercial unit in Toronto mortgage fee. All in less than a year. Coincidentally, the closing is actually today!!!
  38. 12 points
    Law school prepared me for the reality of the legal community. That is, understanding that I'd have to start assuming that my peers in legal practice - lawyers and judges, mainly - are at least as smart as I am, and to stop expecting that I could pull random observations out of my ass on a moment's notice and still get good results in discussions, debates, and assigned work. U of T was great for this. Say what you want about the school, their terrible policies regarding tuition, etc. - they still attract the best and the brightest. I know some people here thing I'm arrogant. Hell, I AM arrogant in many ways. But I like to think I'm rationally arrogant. I know when I'm good at something and I like to take credit for it. But man, going to law school was an eye-opener. Because suddenly everybody was very, very good. And seriously - I needed badly to recalibrate. It took me a while. Some law students and lawyers never get there. They simply aren't smart enough to notice how smart everyone else is, like how Donald Trump just genuinely can't recognize expertise and knowledge in other people because he doesn't know what it is to operate on that level. Fortunately, I think I avoided that pitfall eventually. But not before I had some cringe-worthy moments.
  39. 12 points
    I've been a lawyer for 20 years. I'm a commercial/general civil litigator and I manage a small firm. I bill around 1450-1500 hours per year and recover about 1300-1350 of that at $550 to $600 an hour - all of which I get to put into my pocket (less, you know, taxes and "expenses"). I have two associates whose work pays all of my overhead (obvs. including their salaries). I also have 4 non-equity partners. Most importantly, every single person I work with is someone I like and respect. I have been very lucky. Before law school, I tried several other careers, none of which I could stand. If litigation had not worked out, I expect I'd be unemployable.
  40. 12 points
    Jaggers, the far-left management side labour lawyer! I literally fire workers for a living. I’m pretty far from left wing.
  41. 12 points
    I wanna meet the person who scored 180 and decided to write the LSAT again. Must have an interesting life story.
  42. 11 points
    Law school is actually very good at teaching you the current state of the law. Don’t ever discount the value of this knowledge and work hard to keep up on developments as you go along. When you appear in front of a judge and make an argument that - I don’t know - there is an objective standard in play when a person fails to take steps to ensure they don’t breach a court order, knowing that the BCCA just released R v Zora this year puts you ahead of about eighty percent of your colleagues who are too lazy or too busy to stay up to date. Another random example: Coming out of law school I promise you have a MUCH better handle on the nightmare of jurisprudence that is sexual assault law that almost anyone else in the courthouse. Now you probably have no idea how to create a foundation for your argument to bring that knowledge of the law in play. School doesn’t teach you to be a litigator. It just teaches you the law. But I make a point to chat with new Calls about caselaw from time to time because honestly, they often have a much better concept of the current framework on X area that I need to adopt, especially if the judge doesn’t have a criminal background. Being able to Coles Notes the Law in argument is a wonderful thing, and without a lot of effort you lose it fast - so enjoy being current while you can.
  43. 11 points
    Well, to begin with, you can probably cite the many things grades are used for over and above getting you a job. The fact that you have focused the entire educational endeavor down to a job interview is really kinda sad. The remainder of the answer is this. Not everyone in law is on a conveyor belt towards practicing in large corporate firms. In fact the majority (though perhaps not the large majority) end up doing other things, that do not correspond to the schedule of events that you've been spoon fed by your CDO. So at all of the many, eccletic times that other students and graduates will be looking for jobs, and other employers will be hiring, of course they are looking at grades. Which is why (I can't believe I'm even writing this) law schools continue to grade their students even after the Almighty OCI recruit is done after first year. You're free to want the career in law that you want, and I know very good people practicing in major firms. But only the extreme douchebags look out from their big towers on Bay Street and actually fail to realize that there are many, many fine lawyers whose lives and practice environments do not resemble their own. In other words, quite frankly, if you even have to ask this question, you're in danger of becoming one of those douchebags. Don't.
  44. 11 points
    Work. It’s not even close. They pay me. If you ignore money, then yeah I obviously I prefer doing whatever I want at any given moment.
  45. 11 points
    I think that many of you imagine that employers conduct a far more detailed investigation and comparison of grades during the hiring process than they actually do.
  46. 11 points
    Got admitted today 3.63/156. Will be accepting.
  47. 11 points
    This is one of those times when it's best not to be so damn sure about something that you clearly know little about.
  48. 11 points
    1. Accept Osgoode and withdraw from Queens. 2. Forfeit your deposit and learn why next September while you're taking 1L contracts at Osgoode.
  49. 11 points
    What I'm trying to get at is there are more helpful answers than just critiquing the question that was asked. OP has recognized that it's a hard question to answer, and that not every case is the same. They're not looking for a hard and fast rule or get rich quick scheme. As in my other example- finance jobs pay more than human resources jobs, but at the same time, a talented HR person who has a tremendous work ethic (and maybe a little luck) can make more than someone in finance. And, to put the cherry on top, having people work for you rather than working for them is bound to make you more money in any industry if you're running a profitable business and scaling accordingly. A medical school student asking "which professions make the most money", is almost just as subjective, and I'm sure some doctors would have cookie-cutter answers such as "well that depends on how hard you work and how talented you are", but the principles can be applied to give helpful advice at least. I can tell you, and I'm not a doctor, that a plastic surgeon who owns their own clinic makes more money per year than a general family doctor. Surgeons make more as well, and among surgeons I'd wager that heart and neuro-surgeons make more money on aggregate than ortho. With that said I'll acknowledge your argument that a talented and hardworking ortho surgeon can make more than a heart surgeon (perhaps they're business-oriented and partner with professional sports teams on the side, who knows). This conversation gets cyclical real quick. Point is that there's no need to be rude and condescending to someone who is asking a genuine question with less experience than you. Sometimes it feels like a select few lawyers on this site just like to argue and flex their muscles over small details.
  50. 11 points
    To a degree, everyone has their own style and prompting anyone to adopt a style that isn't natural for them at all isn't helpful. I feel like the OP and I are extremely different in this regard, and so my advice here is of limited use. All the same, here's the best general advice I haven't seen yet. When you have the option of taking a chance or not taking a chance, you should take the chance. In other words, default to saying or doing things you aren't sure if you should say or do, rather than play it safe. When a job is yours to lose, that's when you play it safe. When you're one of 20 candidates for a few positions, there is absolutely no benefit to being average in that field. If you are a bland, average candidate in five different interviews, you'll get five polite rejections. If you're a memorable, risk-taking candidate in five interviews, you may say or do something dumb in several of those and take yourself out of contention. But you only need one offer. Sometimes the chance will pay off, and you're the applicant they remember for the right reasons. Look at it this way. The idea of "selling yourself" is so utterly fake. You can keep yourself up at night trying to figure out what the fuck that's supposed to be. Books on salesmanship and stuff try to teach it, like if only a customer likes you then maybe they'll buy your company's products instead of the next company's products. To a degree there's truth to it. But it's mucky and I find a lot of it is fake. Any rational person buys the better product, even if the sales rep is less fun to be around. But here's the thing. In law, you are also the product. You are auditioning not just to sell the firm's legal services, but to be a part of the firm's legal product. The people interviewing you aren't thinking "do we like this person" they are thinking "will our clients like this person - trust them - feel good about them?" That's what matters. Whatever the hell it is you do to make people trust you, in real life, that's what you want to bring to interviews. Think of any time in your life people have been relied on you. And if that hasn't happened before, start looking at clinics and other opportunities to create that interaction. Because that's what law is. You're the person with the answers, or the person who'll get the answers, and get them right. You don't need to be the most popular kid in the class to create that vibe. A confident nerd can lean into that same vibe. So can a quiet, bookish type. If you believe you're the right person to be doing the work, and that trusting you is the smart thing to do, you'll be able to sell it. The way you do it, from that point, is secondary. Anyway, good luck.
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