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LawyerJustice

Is it fun?

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Hello,

I am in the process of doing the LSAT. I work PT at a law firm and I work PT at a retail sales job in the telecom industry. I get a lot of enjoyment and satisfaction from my retail job. The rush of closing a sale, interacting with customers, convincing them to spend more then they intended and making money on their expense is something I really enjoy. Especially hitting sale targets and reaching goals, and competing with my team.

At the law firm I see a bunch of lawyers typing away on their laptops, making calls, consults, etc. It seems that even they (compared to the average joe) live for the weekend. Every shift I hear a lawyer say "can't wait for the weekend". I know this lawyer saying that doesn't mean every lawyer is like that. But honestly, they sit in an office and type away, make calls and stuff. It seems so boring - is there any rush, thrill, excitement? Is people interaction limited to consults and meetings? Is there a type of law that can give me what I am looking for? 

I like the law because its an application of rules where loopholes and manipulation can come into play. Also, there is a lot of convincing and sales to be made with the client and opposing counsel. I also generally like reading the law. Ideally I would like to teach but that will come years after practicing. 

What do you think?

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Without going into my personal thoughts on the majority of this post, I'd simply say, why not talk to some of the lawyers at the firm you work at and ask them these same questions? Maybe you can shadow one of them or go for coffee and have a frank discussion about what kind of law they do and what they enjoy about it and what they hate about it. I personally love my job, but that doesn't mean I don't love my weekends too and talk with my co-workers about being excited for the weekend. 

Anyway, good luck OP!

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2 minutes ago, MissJE said:

Without going into my personal thoughts on the majority of this post, I'd simply say, why not talk to some of the lawyers at the firm you work at and ask them these same questions? Maybe you can shadow one of them or go for coffee and have a frank discussion about what kind of law they do and what they enjoy about it and what they hate about it. I personally love my job, but that doesn't mean I don't love my weekends too and talk with my co-workers about being excited for the weekend. 

Anyway, good luck OP!

Thanks for taking the time to reply! Thats a good idea. 

I am curious to know your personal thoughts on majority of my post. (if you have the time to share)

Edited by LawyerJustice

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It really, really depends on what kind of law you're doing.

I know some people that love their jobs and live for the weekend.  Their jobs are excruciatingly dull.  They interface with people at banks and financial companies whose jobs are also excruciatingly dull.  But they bond over that and gossip about TV shows or concerts and make a good network of client/friends, and at the end of the week have a palatial cottage in the Muskokas where they can shake off the detritus of the week.

There are other people that have jobs that just really suck.  Same kind of case or deal every single day.  They're stuck doing it, and they don't like it, and so they do a bad job, then they get in trouble and the spiral of not liking the job continues.  I don't blame those people at all for living for the weekend.

Some people are living their ideology, working for Legal Aid or political or non-profit organizations or in immigration or criminal defence.  Their work might be hard but it's incredibly fulfilling and they'll often tell you it's more of a calling than a job. I always love doing pro bono work and helping real people with problems they can't work through.  I don't know if they would call it fun, but their work gives their life a higher meaning and they can see the good they're doing in their communities.

Then there are dopes like me out here doing complex litigation.  I love this job.  I'm learning about a new industry every week --- electrical engineering, pharmacy, bedpan manufacturing, hot dog processing --- and playing a sophisticated game against motivated, well-trained opponents.  I'm a private investigator, business advisor, nonfiction writer, advocate, academic or interrogator depending on the hour of the day.  As I often say, this job is great --- there's just sometimes a little too much of it.

Don't get me wrong, I look forward to the weekends.  But this is the first job I've had where I never feel like I'm dragging myself to the office in the morning.  I'm at least neutral, and often motivated to get in here every day and kick some ass.

My advice to law students and young associates is usually to pay a lot more attention to the kind of lifestyle associated with a certain kind of practice, and less about the academic content of that area of law.  Most of the time people will settle on their jobs due to things like hours, contact with other people, stress, predictability, and the skills they get to use, rather than settling on bankruptcy because they think the laws are neat.

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The fact that you enjoy retail makes me feel like you would enjoy literally every job out there...

Having said that, I am articling now and have to say that I really enjoy it. I've worked in some crummy jobs in some pretty harsh environments in the past. Other than admin tasks here and there, at this job I get to come into work and think all day! I'm getting paid to use my brain! I'm only a few months into it, but I've yet to ever dread coming into the office.

The lawyers are my firm seem to be pretty happy. Much like when they were in law school, they tend to work hard then play hard. And if they hate working on a certain kind of file, they shoot that up to the partners who start delegating the type of file to someone who actually enjoys it - at the end of the day they get more quality product from someone who's happy doing a task.

Don't let the complaining get to you. From my observations, lawyers and law students love to complain. It's half the fun!

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My take on your post (if you care) is that if you aim to take the same approach in practice (say as a solo practitioner) as you do in your telecom sales job, specifically:

Quote

convincing them [clients] to spend more then they intended and making money on [at] their expense

You might not be very well-received as a lawyer by your clients. You don't need to build long-term trust in a sales relationship (and with your eagerness, might often result in the opposite), but without trust there will be no long-term relationship as a lawyer.  I should qualify this statement with the disclaimer that I'm only just entering law school. But from what I gather, especially as a solo practitioner, a LOT of business is based on repeat clients and referrals.  Your clients need to perceive value if either of those are to happen. If I misunderstood or took your comment out of context, then disregard.

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22 minutes ago, TrqTTs said:

My take on your post (if you care) is that if you aim to take the same approach in practice (say as a solo practitioner) as you do in your telecom sales job, specifically:

You might not be very well-received as a lawyer by your clients. You don't need to build long-term trust in a sales relationship (and with your eagerness, might often result in the opposite), but without trust there will be no long-term relationship as a lawyer.  I should qualify this statement with the disclaimer that I'm only just entering law school. But from what I gather, especially as a solo practitioner, a LOT of business is based on repeat clients and referrals.  Your clients need to perceive value if either of those are to happen. If I misunderstood or took your comment out of context, then disregard.

stop

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35 minutes ago, TrqTTs said:

My take on your post (if you care) is that if you aim to take the same approach in practice (say as a solo practitioner) as you do in your telecom sales job, specifically:

You might not be very well-received as a lawyer by your clients. You don't need to build long-term trust in a sales relationship (and with your eagerness, might often result in the opposite), but without trust there will be no long-term relationship as a lawyer.  I should qualify this statement with the disclaimer that I'm only just entering law school. But from what I gather, especially as a solo practitioner, a LOT of business is based on repeat clients and referrals.  Your clients need to perceive value if either of those are to happen. If I misunderstood or took your comment out of context, then disregard.

 

13 minutes ago, wanderlawst1 said:

stop

yeah really

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2 hours ago, LawyerJustice said:

convincing them to spend more then they intended and making money on their expense

 

2 hours ago, LawyerJustice said:

I like the law because its an application of rules where loopholes and manipulation can come into play.

You good bruh?

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51 minutes ago, TrqTTs said:

My take on your post (if you care) is that if you aim to take the same approach in practice (say as a solo practitioner) as you do in your telecom sales job, specifically:

You might not be very well-received as a lawyer by your clients. You don't need to build long-term trust in a sales relationship (and with your eagerness, might often result in the opposite), but without trust there will be no long-term relationship as a lawyer.  I should qualify this statement with the disclaimer that I'm only just entering law school. But from what I gather, especially as a solo practitioner, a LOT of business is based on repeat clients and referrals.  Your clients need to perceive value if either of those are to happen. If I misunderstood or took your comment out of context, then disregard.

Sales too is dependent on returning clients, and building a relationship. It requires an individual to find solutions to a customers needs. These solutions in turn when sold benefit me. When a customer pays more than what they intended I did my job while still providing a solution to their needs, and more. 

To retain a client/customer selling skills are required. You have to show them the value you will give them opposed to other people, and then provide them with exceptional service and solutions. Do you agree?

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17 minutes ago, SlickRick said:

 

You good bruh?

You've never written a grievance letter for someone where you had to apply employment law while looking for loopholes in the company policies? 

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3 hours ago, LawyerJustice said:

convincing them to spend more then they intended and making money on their expense is something I really enjoy. 

pretty suspect personality trait

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1. It appears that OP was saying they have a knack for sales - not that they upsell everybody with a bunch of crap they don't need. This is a useful trait in just about any industry - it basically means OP is sociable, trustworthy, likeable etc. At the end of the day, law is a service industry. Take it easy people. Maybe OP didn't mean "making money on their expense" in a taking advantage sort of way but rather commissions?

2. OP, "loopholes" aren't really as prevalent or exciting in law as you would think. There's a lot of implied this or that and bystander tests etc. And equity tends to crush super technical interpretations. Tax on the other hand...

3. I don't see why someone who is interested in sales should look into another career. Plenty of sales/pitches in law. It's a very transferable skill. OP, if you want to be a lawyer, you do you.

 

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