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Negotiating Articling Salary

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54 minutes ago, pzabbythesecond said:

I'll be honest, and I don't mean to be a dick, but I think you're speculating too far when you 17 percent are getting close to minimum wage or less for articling. You may be right, but I don't think there's enough data to actually get there.

 

Also, while it is true that most who do LPP didnt find articles, I think there's a not so insignificant numbers of students who forego certain articling opportunities because of various reasons (mainly I'm thinking practice area, since some corporate employers do hire from the LPP, whereas students who struck out during the articling recruit are probably struggling to find corporate related articles).

 

I dunno, you think my 10% estimate is too high? 3% of articling positions are unpaid, according to the LPP report, so that means I'm guesstimating 7% are paid through stipend or close to minimum wage. That feels about right to me, but maybe I'm off. What do you think is a more accurate guess for stipend/min. wage articling positions? 

Agree with you re: foregoing opportunities, but that shouldn't matter, should it? The only way students opting for LPP instead of articling effects the calculation is if there are more paid (and in this case, paid above minimum wage) articling positions than applicants. Otherwise, it's a safe assumption that those opting for LPP simply swap out with another student who would have been LPP, if not for the open articling position. Or maybe I'm misunderstanding the scenario?

(Mod edit: unnecessary commentary)

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Posted (edited)
46 minutes ago, BlockedQuebecois said:

 

I dunno, you think my 10% estimate is too high? 3% of articling positions are unpaid, according to the LPP report, so that means I'm guesstimating 7% are paid through stipend or close to minimum wage. That feels about right to me, but maybe I'm off. What do you think is a more accurate guess for stipend/min. wage articling positions? 

Agree with you re: foregoing opportunities, but that shouldn't matter, should it? The only way students opting for LPP instead of articling effects the calculation is if there are more paid (and in this case, paid above minimum wage) articling positions than applicants. Otherwise, it's a safe assumption that those opting for LPP simply swap out with another student who would have been LPP, if not for the open articling position. Or maybe I'm misunderstanding the scenario?

(Mod edit: unnecessary commentary)

For the most part you're right. But you're assuming perfect and instantaneous information among all article providers and article seekers. Just because one person foregoes an articling opportunity, doesn't mean an LPP student hears about it (either quickly enough or at all). Often times articling opportunities only exist for that one person, because the provider doesn't in fact need one, but is offering one because they know the student, etc etc. 

 

Bold 2: I don't really know. Just pointing out that it was in fact as much a guess as it was based on any sort of data. I don't know what the market is like out there for articling compensation. Perhaps the LSO should spend time figuring that out and enforcing disclosure instead of worrying about what they're called.

Edited by pzabbythesecond

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54 minutes ago, pzabbythesecond said:

For the most part you're right. But you're assuming perfect and instantaneous information among all article providers and article seekers. Just because one person foregoes an articling opportunity, doesn't mean an LPP student hears about it (either quickly enough or at all). Often times articling opportunities only exist for that one person, because the provider doesn't in fact need one, but is offering one because they know the student, etc etc. 

 

Bold 2: I don't really know. Just pointing out that it was in fact as much a guess as it was based on any sort of data. I don't know what the market is like out there for articling compensation. Perhaps the LSO should spend time figuring that out and enforcing disclosure instead of worrying about what they're called.

2

I'm also assuming spherical articling students in a vacuum (which, based on the doom and gloom, might be a good approximation of the articling market). Are you questioning my assumptions? :twisted:

I was actually shocked that the LSUC created the LPP without having an understanding of the compensation offered to articling students. I would have thought that data is easy to collect and incredibly valuable, but apparently, I was wrong.

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