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Living with parents during law school?

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13 minutes ago, theycancallyouhoju said:

As a factual matter, I agree with @Diplock. People I know who moved out at 18 and started working to pay their own way are, by and large, extremely stable, self-reliant individuals. A high percentage of the people I know still struggling in their early 30s with the basics of life had everything paid for them.

But @RNGesus isn’t wrong either - none of the ‘taking care of yourself’ stuff is intellectually challenging (unless you want it to be). It can all be learned quickly. Doing your own taxes, budgeting for a year or multiple years, figuring out how to organize a home in a way that makes you happy...anyone can learn easily. They just often don’t learn and I think it’s disingenuous to argue that people who start learning something young don’t, on average, do a better job of it. It’s true of all other things in life.

It is a personal choice whether you get more happiness and fulfillment from letting mom and dad pay for you to be a success or for you to do it on your own. But I don’t understand how anyone with the age and capacity to carry their own burden prefers to have it carried for them. I’m pretty materialistic and even I think the first order of the real Maslow pyramid is ‘not requiring other people to sacrifice so you can avoid your own sacrifices’. 

[emphasis added]

One might speculate there's a selection bias - as a lawyer, how many people do you meet socially who moved out at 18 and their life went to crap and they never earned a degree or diploma or entered a trade or whatever? Given your viewpoint, are you more likely to notice someone in their 30s who's struggling and who had more family financial support?

From a quick search, albeit for another country with its own tax and student support etc. systems, the best time to move out, from a financial perspective, was 21-24. Those who moved out earlier or later were less well-off (financially at least):

"...Study author Associate Prof Roger Wilkins said while he expected cutting loose before 18 was “probably not a good thing”, he was surprised by the adverse effects that moving out between 18-20 and after age 24 could have.

“We’re possibly picking up on something here about how people who are more able, then go on to get their independence faster,” Prof Wilkins said.

The Melbourne Institute researcher said this did not mean that young Aussies should now be aiming to move out at age 21-24 to get rich, as he didn’t believe it was a causal effect. Rather, he believed it was simply the types of people and personalities who moved out at that age were more likely to flourish...."

http://www.news.com.au/finance/generations/the-time-you-move-out-can-have-major-impacts-on-future-wealth-new-australian-survey-reveals/news-story/78468f5a9281d3a2b7b937dc882bbe96

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12 minutes ago, epeeist said:

[emphasis added]

One might speculate there's a selection bias - as a lawyer, how many people do you meet socially who moved out at 18 and their life went to crap and they never earned a degree or diploma or entered a trade or whatever? Given your viewpoint, are you more likely to notice someone in their 30s who's struggling and who had more family financial support?

From a quick search, albeit for another country with its own tax and student support etc. systems, the best time to move out, from a financial perspective, was 21-24. Those who moved out earlier or later were less well-off (financially at least):

"...Study author Associate Prof Roger Wilkins said while he expected cutting loose before 18 was “probably not a good thing”, he was surprised by the adverse effects that moving out between 18-20 and after age 24 could have.

“We’re possibly picking up on something here about how people who are more able, then go on to get their independence faster,” Prof Wilkins said.

The Melbourne Institute researcher said this did not mean that young Aussies should now be aiming to move out at age 21-24 to get rich, as he didn’t believe it was a causal effect. Rather, he believed it was simply the types of people and personalities who moved out at that age were more likely to flourish...."

http://www.news.com.au/finance/generations/the-time-you-move-out-can-have-major-impacts-on-future-wealth-new-australian-survey-reveals/news-story/78468f5a9281d3a2b7b937dc882bbe96

I don't disagree. But I'm on lawstudents.ca, so I'm talking to a bunch of people who think of themselves as able to be high stress biglaw attorneys, defenders of liberty (or, uh, prosecutors taking away liberty), the next 600 or so Amal Clooneys, consiglieri to billionaire PE giants, the maintainers of family order and peace, representative of the downtrodden and... I mean come on. The most common topic on this forum after 'will I get in' is 'does the thing I got into have an adequate amount of prestige to suit my majesty'. 

So, if you're a titan of intellect and a devoted hard worker and either a future corporate shark of some sort or the great big arm that's going to help lift up the little guy: you can work a part time job and pay rent. 

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17 hours ago, RNGesus said:

Honestly, if you're a halfway functioning adult, learning to live on your own is not a huge challenge. If you're thrown right into it, it'll take you a month at most to adjust. Cleaning is rather self explanatory, laundry isn't hard. Get a place that rents with utilities included and you don't need to worry about bills, just make sure there's enough on the first of every month that your cheques don't bounce. Groceries and cooking has a steeper learning curve, but definitely settles in with time. I only really started to cook when I moved out of residence in second year, but it you're willing to settle it's not hard at all. My meals aren't looking like anything out of a cookbook, but they aren't hard meals either and are decently palatable (gotta love bachelor cooking). Literally throw protein of some form, carbs, veggies and some form of flavouring to it and you're golden. Ideally, anything that scales to 2-3 meals without much additional work. You also learn what you prefer to eat and grocery shop accordingly, and cut down on the food waste of those tomatoes you've never ended up eating.

True, these things inherently aren't that difficult. However, they can seem more or less overwhelming or challenging depending on how overwhelming or challenging other new things in your life are. Law school is new, stressful, overwhelming and challenging. Articling can be even more new, stressful, overwhelming and challenging. Starting as an associate can be even more new, stressful, overwhelming and challenging. It's generally better to get into new lifestyle habits at less otherwise stressful times - there's a reason a lot of people advise getting into good habits while you're still in law school, as the next steps can be pretty crazy and you don't want to pile all kinds of new and unfamiliar responsibilities/habits on top of the others you'll be carrying. Getting used to things like cooking and cleaning for yourself will be easier in school than it would be if your first exposure is during more stressful periods.

Also, the conversation has kind of moved past this point but it's sort of related - I don't understand the idea of not wanting to "burden" yourself with cooking/cleaning/jobs/whatever because doing so could negatively impact your grades. Grades are far from the most important thing in law school. By far the most useful thing I learned in school was effective multitasking - being able to organize and prioritize my various responsibilities (lifestyle responsibilities, jobs, clinics, moots, classes), and get everything done - which helped me learn how to keep my grades up even with all the other responsibilities. This made the transition into articling, and then practice, much more seamless than it otherwise would have been - the learning curve was more substantive than procedural. Not having this kind of experience certainly would have made it harder to adapt to the substantially more overwhelming and competing deadlines and responsibilities in the career stages after school.

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I agree that grades aren’t the biggest take-away from law school. Mine were great, but what I value far more is the friendships I made there. I never really had friends like that before with people from totally different backgrounds where we really got to know each other on a deep level. I’m in business with one of them now. I would rather have got B+s and keep the time with those friends than spend all my waking hours trying to get As and not have that. 

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