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Should I withdraw my application? RE: cGPA

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36 minutes ago, s27 said:

Thanks so much!

I think I'm a bit scared to apply for the Windsor dual, because what if they see that I applied for both and reject me from the single JD because they saw I applied to the Dual one? Maybe I'm overthinking. 

I believe that if you don’t get accepted in the dual program they put you into the pool for the single JD. So there’s no harm in applying for the dual in your situation. 

You might want to confirm my understanding though. 

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On 11/20/2017 at 12:36 AM, BlockedQuebecois said:

The dual program really isn't a good idea. There isn't a realistic chance of transferring to another law school or out of the dual. 

This simply isn't true. I know a few people who have transferred to other schools from Windsor's dual program.

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9 minutes ago, JohnP said:

This simply isn't true. I know a few people who have transferred to other schools from Windsor's dual program.

Hey!

I just applied to University of New Brunswick as somebody mentioned, but I'm having trouble applying to the Windsor dual program. 

Through OLSAS, all it's letting me submit is just a supplementary form? Which has like, only 6 lines to explain why I want to go there? Do they not accept personal statements? A bit strange. 

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9 minutes ago, JohnP said:

This simply isn't true. I know a few people who have transferred to other schools from Windsor's dual program.

Rule of thumb on LS is not to recommend someone transfer out. Schools generally take 5-10 students and that's usually a shuffle of good law students for personal reasons. 

Does it happen, though? Of course. 

@OP I don't see you getting offers unless you score 170+.

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On ‎19‎/‎11‎/‎2017 at 8:20 PM, s27 said:

Hey guys!

Long time lurker, first time poster.

I've graduated from York in Honors PoliSci this June, and am enrolled in writing the Dec2017 LSAT. I've already submitted my application for 5 Ontario law schools, being: Ottawa, Windsor, Queens, Western and Osgoode. 

This entire time I've calculated my cGPA on York's conversion chart, and I've gotten a 3.1. 

I just went on my Windsor student account to look at my application status and they calculated my GPA as a 2.89. I freaked out and googled it and I came across the OLSAS GPA calculator and it showed me everything, so basically my stats are:

Cumulative GPA (CGPA): 2.90
  Last two years (L2): 2.89
  Last three years (L3): 3.04
  Best two years (B2): 3.28
  Best three years (B3): 3.04

 

I've lurked these forums for a long time and literally haven't seen anybody get in anywhere with a 2.8.

Really strong ROF, PS and EC's. Worked two jobs, one was being a legal assistant for a Crim. Lawyer. I've included this all in my PS, I just don't know if it's good enough having that low of a GPA. I didn't apply access, and I'm not a mature student, but I did fill out the Part B section for Osgoode under diversity. 

I feel super emotional and discouraged right now and I don't know if I should even write the LSAT/not apply and figure something else out. How low are my chances/do I even stand a chance? 

I wouldn't withdraw at this point. You've presumably already paid some deposits (for both the applications and the LSAT), so I would see them through because otherwise it will be a waste of money. But you will also gain the experience of applying once already (which should help on the next set of applications, assuming you don't get in this year and want to apply again next year.) I don't think you will be admitted anywhere. It's not impossible, but I think it's unlikely.  Hopefully you get a good LSAT score.

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29 minutes ago, Ambit said:

My biggest worry for OP is that she might screw himself by writing the December LSAT. Schools have trended towards looking average LSAT scores rather than best. I'm not sure if that applies to Windsor / Western. Either way, gaining 15 points in less than a month is unrealistic.

OP, is it possible to defer your December LSAT to February or June? I would consider that option.

Also, any chance you are indigenous? I assume you are not because it hasn't come up, but admissions are a bit of a different game in that case.

None of the Ontario schools take average LSAT, and as far as I know, only a single out-of-province school (not sure which) averages the LSAT. So it should be fine, but I agree that gaining 15 points in a month probably is unrealistic unless the OP did absolutely no prep at all before writing the first time (in which case, even a modest amount of preparation can usually improve their score quite a bit).

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1 hour ago, Ambit said:

My biggest worry for OP is that she might screw himself by writing the December LSAT. Schools have trended towards looking average LSAT scores rather than best. I'm not sure if that applies to Windsor / Western. Either way, gaining 15 points in less than a month is unrealistic.

OP, is it possible to defer your December LSAT to February or June? I would consider that option.

Also, any chance you are indigenous? I assume you are not because it hasn't come up, but admissions are a bit of a different game in that case.

Hi! Thanks for responding :) 

I talked to my instructor about this, and he said the same to me about preferably writing it in Feb (Not June because they won't accept me for 2018 then). The only reason why I can't defer this upcoming one is because Windsor won't accept your February marks, so I'm going to still try for December and then go for February too, most likely. 

@Ryn is right. When I first did my few practice tests, it was before I even completed the course/knew how to strategize each section. I think a 160 is more doable and is my current goal. 165+ if I write it in February. One user said 170, I don't think I can achieve that. But maybe we'll see for Feb. 

Not an aboriginal, but I did speak with Western and they allowed me to submit a page + (I gathered) documentation to claim special circumstances, explaining the marks of my final year. Really praying this can hold some weight, because my transcript is not terrible and it really is certain marks weighing me down. I also submitted the explanation and the documentations to UNB as well. 

Edited by s27
UBN-UNB lmao

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2 minutes ago, drankcoffee said:

I don't understand why OP graduated with their current grades, if they were a "long time" lurker. She should have taken a fifth (and even sixth) year and added a double major to her degree, worked very hard and got the grades needed, and as a result her B3/L3 would have been much higher. I don't know how it works at York, but people at other schools take fifth and sixth years all the time - U of T, Western, Guelph. I don't think adcom cares that much about how long it took yo to get your degree. But they do care a lot about that OLSAS index score that says "2.89" or "3.89". Future students reading this: take an extra year if you can afford it. It is certainly cheaper than a Windsor dual degree or going abroad. 

 

I agree with you. I think I wrote in a comment here somewhere that I did calculate my GPA on York's website and it was higher than what I saw OLSAS converted me to. Long time lurker definitely did not mean prior to my graduation. I didn't even know about OLSAS's GPA convertors. As I said to Western, had I known I was in the 2.9 range, believe me I would have taken a fifth year. Or even summer courses!!!! I had nothing to lose, it's not like I started law school in September. I just worked this year. I'm just really upset about that. 

Honestly in my experience going through the application process, I just want to say that York was absolutely terrible in preparing any students with any sort of information on post-graduate studies. Whether it be Master's programs or law schools. I had no idea where to start or what to do. I understand you need to research it yourself, which I did at the time (I never came across this forum) - I came across different charts that all gave me different admissions requirements. The only way I found out about this was through a co-worker of mine at the law firm. Regardless, I just wish there was a bit more guidance from our Universities in regards to law schools. It would allow us to realize what we need. Had I found this forum prior to graduating, or even in my second or third year, I think I would've had a different outcome. 

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8 minutes ago, drankcoffee said:

OP, you aren't getting your application money back, so withdrawing does nothing. I honestly would not write the LSAT until I was confidently hitting 165-170 with your stats. Even if this meant not writing it this year and skipping out on this admissions round. Write it next year, write it as late as possible. Taking another year off isn't going to harm you, especially if you are working and can use that work experience on your personal statement. Some schools average out LSAT score, and you don't want to end up with a 155 or a 160 that you'll have trouble mitigating in the future. The fact that you are kind of panicking about this as late as you are is what leads me to the conclusion that you should probably delay your LS goals another year and take the next year to actually get your shit together. 

 

The schools that I'm applying to I don't think average out LSAT scores, but I will write it in December just because I want to provide Windsor with at least something. Otherwise my Windsor application will be wasted, since they won't take my February marks.

 

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4 minutes ago, s27 said:

I agree with you. I think I wrote in a comment here somewhere that I did calculate my GPA on York's website and it was higher than what I saw OLSAS converted me to. Long time lurker definitely did not mean prior to my graduation. I didn't even know about OLSAS's GPA convertors. As I said to Western, had I known I was in the 2.9 range, believe me I would have taken a fifth year. Or even summer courses!!!! I had nothing to lose, it's not like I started law school in September. I just worked this year. I'm just really upset about that. 

Honestly in my experience going through the application process, I just want to say that York was absolutely terrible in preparing any students with any sort of information on post-graduate studies. Whether it be Master's programs or law schools. I had no idea where to start or what to do. I understand you need to research it yourself, which I did at the time (I never came across this forum) - I came across different charts that all gave me different admissions requirements. The only way I found out about this was through a co-worker of mine at the law firm. Regardless, I just wish there was a bit more guidance from our Universities in regards to law schools. It would allow us to realize what we need. Had I found this forum prior to graduating, or even in my second or third year, I think I would've had a different outcome. 

Oh, sorry. I was under the impression that you had been browsing since before you graduated. My bad.

Like I said, you can still take post-degree courses - even at a school like U of T (see link I posted) - and boost up those numbers. Apply outside of the province too. If all else fails, and you still really want to do law, the dual JD is always there.

And if the schools you are applying to don't average out LSAT - then definitely take it in December (or whenever the due date is) so that you provide Windsor/etc with something. I would take it at the last possible opportunity. Actually, come to think of it, I think the only schools that average LSAT are U of T, so nix that.

Edited by drankcoffee
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22 hours ago, Girby said:

Rule of thumb on LS is not to recommend someone transfer out. Schools generally take 5-10 students and that's usually a shuffle of good law students for personal reasons. 

Does it happen, though? Of course. 

@OP I don't see you getting offers unless you score 170+.

 

One point I wanted to add to this for OP: 1L does not wash away your academic history before law school. It would be news to me if a school did not consider your LSAT and undergrad to some extent, although your law school grades would, of course, be most important. If you get a fantastic LSAT score and eek into a program you're not happy with and intend to transfer, it will still be on you to deliver over an entire year of schooling that many consider a meat grinder. If you're not happy with the prospect of being at Windsor/whatever your safety net is (no disrespect intended) for an entire degree, do not go to that school.

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In an effort to keep this on-topic for OP, I have split out all of the posts that debated the style of advice on these boards (and whether law school is "challenging" or "not hard" to get into) here: 

 

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On 11/27/2017 at 8:39 PM, s27 said:

I agree with you. I think I wrote in a comment here somewhere that I did calculate my GPA on York's website and it was higher than what I saw OLSAS converted me to. Long time lurker definitely did not mean prior to my graduation. I didn't even know about OLSAS's GPA convertors. As I said to Western, had I known I was in the 2.9 range, believe me I would have taken a fifth year. Or even summer courses!!!! I had nothing to lose, it's not like I started law school in September. I just worked this year. I'm just really upset about that. 

Honestly in my experience going through the application process, I just want to say that York was absolutely terrible in preparing any students with any sort of information on post-graduate studies. Whether it be Master's programs or law schools. I had no idea where to start or what to do. I understand you need to research it yourself, which I did at the time (I never came across this forum) - I came across different charts that all gave me different admissions requirements. The only way I found out about this was through a co-worker of mine at the law firm. Regardless, I just wish there was a bit more guidance from our Universities in regards to law schools. It would allow us to realize what we need. Had I found this forum prior to graduating, or even in my second or third year, I think I would've had a different outcome. 

Speaking of Master's programs, there are some programs that you can apply with your current cGPA (as long as they require a minimum B-/B average in your case). You may be limited with your choices, but it's possible to apply to a few (as backup in case your law school plans don't work out) and keep improving your grades before re-applying for law school the following year. 

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