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mbenn

Transfer to UofT?

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I'm in 1L at Western and liking it but am missing living in a city and know I want to live and work in Toronto when I graduate.

Anyone have any opinions/experiences on transferring to UofT in 2L - worth it or not? 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, mbenn said:

I'm in 1L at Western and liking it but am missing living in a city and know I want to live and work in Toronto when I graduate.

Anyone have any opinions/experiences on transferring to UofT in 2L - worth it or not? 

 

 

 

I transferred from Western to Osgoode (also applied to UofT but didn't get accepted), so I can throw in my two cents. Also to give you an idea of stats I had a B+ average in 1L but they also still look at your undergrad grades and LSAT score, plus all your extra-curriculars and require 1 reference letter.

I transferred because of family responsibilities so for me it was worth it since now I can help out a lot more at home. But if it wasn't for that I don't think that I would've transferred. First of all keep in mind that in 2L you can make your own schedule so you can definitely have a 3-day weekend or even a 4-day weekend if you really work your scheduling, and you can also end exams way earlier. In my personal experience it's been pretty hard to make new friends at osgoode (not impossible though, i've made some friends but not on the same level as at western) and osgoode doesn't have dennings or any big social events that you can really go to. It's also hard choosing your courses (you'll have last dibs so a lot will be full and plus you don't know any of the profs). Wrt OCI's i did end up with a job, but i think that transferring hurt me. At western a lot of friends i know who have similar or worse grades/experience than me got way more OCIs than I got at osgoode.

basically my point is: transferring kind of sucks and for me my school and social experience is worse than it was at western but being in toronto is a really huge positive that it outweighs that so transferring was worth. i feel like if being in toronto is really valuable to you then it'll be worth it, but if it's just a mild positive then i don't think it's worth it. this is also just my own experience and other people's could be totally different so idk. 

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8 hours ago, pinkroses said:

I transferred from Western to Osgoode (also applied to UofT but didn't get accepted), so I can throw in my two cents. Also to give you an idea of stats I had a B+ average in 1L but they also still look at your undergrad grades and LSAT score, plus all your extra-curriculars and require 1 reference letter.

I transferred because of family responsibilities so for me it was worth it since now I can help out a lot more at home. But if it wasn't for that I don't think that I would've transferred. First of all keep in mind that in 2L you can make your own schedule so you can definitely have a 3-day weekend or even a 4-day weekend if you really work your scheduling, and you can also end exams way earlier. In my personal experience it's been pretty hard to make new friends at osgoode (not impossible though, i've made some friends but not on the same level as at western) and osgoode doesn't have dennings or any big social events that you can really go to. It's also hard choosing your courses (you'll have last dibs so a lot will be full and plus you don't know any of the profs). Wrt OCI's i did end up with a job, but i think that transferring hurt me. At western a lot of friends i know who have similar or worse grades/experience than me got way more OCIs than I got at osgoode.

basically my point is: transferring kind of sucks and for me my school and social experience is worse than it was at western but being in toronto is a really huge positive that it outweighs that so transferring was worth. i feel like if being in toronto is really valuable to you then it'll be worth it, but if it's just a mild positive then i don't think it's worth it. this is also just my own experience and other people's could be totally different so idk. 

Aren’t Dennings just a biweekly pub night? You know Osgoode has weekly pub nights right? And the JCR at Osgoode is also open every week? And those are just the big L&L organized things – my social group has a bunch of other things we do together.

Not to discount your experience, but I’ve had no problem finding social events to go to. 

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On 2017-11-11 at 2:33 PM, mbenn said:

I'm in 1L at Western and liking it but am missing living in a city and know I want to live and work in Toronto when I graduate.

Anyone have any opinions/experiences on transferring to UofT in 2L - worth it or not? 

 

 

 

The thing about transferring to U of T is that in order to actually pull it off you need the sort of grades that are going to pretty much lock you into any job you want, and make you competitive for clerkships. Because you’ll be in a situation where you don’t really need U of T on your resume to help you (and whether or not it actually helps you is another conversation), I’m not really sure why people do it. I guess there is a lingering “I wanted to get in the first time around and now I can” thing going on, or maybe you’d rather have U of T law on your firm profile than Western or Windsor or Ottawa or whatever, which is a personal thing to sort out for yourself, but objectively I’m not sure there is a benefit. 

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On 11/11/2017 at 3:51 PM, pinkroses said:

I transferred from Western to Osgoode (also applied to UofT but didn't get accepted), so I can throw in my two cents. Also to give you an idea of stats I had a B+ average in 1L but they also still look at your undergrad grades and LSAT score, plus all your extra-curriculars and require 1 reference letter.

I transferred because of family responsibilities so for me it was worth it since now I can help out a lot more at home. But if it wasn't for that I don't think that I would've transferred. First of all keep in mind that in 2L you can make your own schedule so you can definitely have a 3-day weekend or even a 4-day weekend if you really work your scheduling, and you can also end exams way earlier. In my personal experience it's been pretty hard to make new friends at osgoode (not impossible though, i've made some friends but not on the same level as at western) and osgoode doesn't have dennings or any big social events that you can really go to. It's also hard choosing your courses (you'll have last dibs so a lot will be full and plus you don't know any of the profs). Wrt OCI's i did end up with a job, but i think that transferring hurt me. At western a lot of friends i know who have similar or worse grades/experience than me got way more OCIs than I got at osgoode.

basically my point is: transferring kind of sucks and for me my school and social experience is worse than it was at western but being in toronto is a really huge positive that it outweighs that so transferring was worth. i feel like if being in toronto is really valuable to you then it'll be worth it, but if it's just a mild positive then i don't think it's worth it. this is also just my own experience and other people's could be totally different so idk. 

Although I don't think it's actually any comment on the social environment at Western vs. the social environment at Osgoode, or anywhere else, I think this comment does capture the experience of transferring. Because it isn't about how one environment is different from another. It's just about losing the connections of 1L.

Law students aren't intentionally cliquey or unwelcoming. At least no more so than most people, and quite probably less so. But 1L is when you meet people. You're in all the same classes, you see the same people all the time, you're all starting together not knowing anyone and looking to make friends. In 2L and 3L, as has been mentioned, you're in a jumble of classes with different people all the time. You see people you don't recognize in those classes and your first thought isn't even "hey, new person, maybe I should meet them" but more like "they are probably in the year I'm not in" (meaning, a student in the 3L cohort if you're 2L, or vice-versa). No one knows everybody so lacking some clear indication that another student is new there isn't even an incentive to try to meet them, even for the altruistic minority who'd make a special effort if they knew one was needed.

So, what's the consequence? When you transfer, you are losing a lot. That circle of friends who makes the social events feel welcoming, who naturally share information about what to do and when to do it - stuff that isn't exactly secret but it helps a lot when other people tell you stuff you may not think of. Connections and networks that may help you, just as you help them.

Anyway, all else being equal, I recommend against transferring. I may end up being the best of bad options. But it's something to avoid if you can.

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I didn't transfer, but I did have the experience of having to make new friends in 2L, because I was the weird exception who made friends with a bunch of 3Ls when in 1L. I had some 1L friends too, but my closest friends were all 3Ls, and they are still my closest friends from law school today. Then they graduated and went off to article and I was really lonely at the start of 2L! I had to turn more to the 1L friends I already had and try to deepen those friendships and make more. Some of my new friends were people who had transferred in who were also feeling lonely. I do think the camaraderie of people starting 1L together builds bonds, often lifelong, and I wouldn't give those up without a good reason. To me, the friendships were one of the best parts of law school. 

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On 11/11/2017 at 3:51 PM, pinkroses said:

I transferred from Western to Osgoode (also applied to UofT but didn't get accepted), so I can throw in my two cents. Also to give you an idea of stats I had a B+ average in 1L but they also still look at your undergrad grades and LSAT score, plus all your extra-curriculars and require 1 reference letter.

I transferred because of family responsibilities so for me it was worth it since now I can help out a lot more at home. But if it wasn't for that I don't think that I would've transferred. First of all keep in mind that in 2L you can make your own schedule so you can definitely have a 3-day weekend or even a 4-day weekend if you really work your scheduling, and you can also end exams way earlier. In my personal experience it's been pretty hard to make new friends at osgoode (not impossible though, i've made some friends but not on the same level as at western) and osgoode doesn't have dennings or any big social events that you can really go to. It's also hard choosing your courses (you'll have last dibs so a lot will be full and plus you don't know any of the profs). Wrt OCI's i did end up with a job, but i think that transferring hurt me. At western a lot of friends i know who have similar or worse grades/experience than me got way more OCIs than I got at osgoode.

basically my point is: transferring kind of sucks and for me my school and social experience is worse than it was at western but being in toronto is a really huge positive that it outweighs that so transferring was worth. i feel like if being in toronto is really valuable to you then it'll be worth it, but if it's just a mild positive then i don't think it's worth it. this is also just my own experience and other people's could be totally different so idk. 

I was in in a similar situation and I transferred to U of T this year. I completely agree 1000% with regards to OCIs and Friends. I did it because of family responsibilities so I don't regret it at all, but it hurt my job prospects (Thankfully I got a job out of the OCI process though!).

I also agree with Diplock, who is absolutely right. You lose a lot of friends. My best connections are still friends from my previous school, although I have managed to make a few friends at U of T.

My recommendation would be to not transfer if you don't need to, but that's just me.

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