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Just now, providence said:

Right, and there were no "minuses" either, right? 

So it used to be A, B+, B, C+, C, D, F? 

So really all they've done is mush C+ and lower together. I would still rather have C+ than LP.  

That's basically it.  I suppose F is still notionally out there, but I shudder to think what you would have to do to get an F.  

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4 minutes ago, drankcoffee said:

148 respondents from a class of 200 

  • 63 students had no HHs
  • 36 students had one HH
  • 31 students had 2-3 HHs
  • 18 students had 4 or more HHs. 

At least 85 out of 200 students got at least one HH or more, and at least a quarter of the class had two or more HHs. 

Well that's exactly what I think we're saying. The 18 with the 4 or more HHs are the top just under 10% of the class, and many others may get one or two once in a while, and many people don't get any.

Edited by providence

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2 minutes ago, onepost said:

Yes, there is still distinction. The precise percentile of the cutoff changes year to year, but is around 10%. This year, as far as I know, straight Hs + 1 or 2 HHs sufficed. Which supports my point. 

And yes, again, grades are obviously correlated. The question is the strength of the correlation. 

Drankcoffee's stats suggest that the top 10% of the class has 4 or more HHs, former As, which is what I would expect. 

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Right. Agreed. But we’ve gone from saying that the top 15% has 7/7 HHs (i.e., perfect correlation) to the top 10% having 4/7 HHs or equivalent (i.e., something else).

Edited by onepost

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2 minutes ago, onepost said:

Right. Agreed. But we’ve gone from saying that the top 15% has 7/7 HHs (i.e., perfect correlation) to the top 10% having 4/7 HHs or equivalent (i.e., something else).

I don't think anyone said they have straight HHs, but they have at least 4. I am sure there are some people with more than 4.  

It can't be that different from when I was in law school. 

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2 minutes ago, drankcoffee said:

148 respondents from a class of 200 

  • 63 students had no HHs
  • 36 students had one HH
  • 31 students had 2-3 HHs
  • 18 students had 4 or more HHs. 

At least 85 out of 200 students got at least one HH or more, and at least a quarter of the class had two or more HHs. 

We can back this out.  There are, what, roughly 175 HH's out there in first year (class of 167*15%*7 classes - note UofT has 200 students in 2nd year because of transfers, but only people who did first year at UofT would have those grades).   So that  survey result probably accounts for all of the HHS out there  (36*1 = 36, 31*2= 62, 18 * 4 = 72 total = 170, I've rounded down so that if there are handful with 3, or 5-7 HHs, that probably covers the difference.  

In any event, that's a pretty tight correlation.  

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30 minutes ago, providence said:

Right, and there were no "minuses" either, right? 

So it used to be A, B+, B, C+, C, D, F? 

So really all they've done is mush C+ and lower together. I would still rather have C+ than LP.  

Besides, when you're charging 100k plus in tuition, you can't very well give someone a D.  

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Just now, maximumbob said:

Besides, when you're charging 100k plus in tuition, you can't very well give someone a D.  

Only because I'm not the prof! I would, if warranted! Forget this LP business.

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2 minutes ago, providence said:

Only because I'm not the prof! I would, if warranted! Forget this LP business.

Back in my TA days, I had no trouble failing the truly clueless and handing out appropriate grades to the richly deserving.  And no doubt some UpfT profs feel the same way, which is why the admin took away that option.

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I always thought mark frenzy was a joke.  If you wrote your name on the exam you'd get a D.  Regardless of what course you were in, if you wrote, "smoking cigarettes and watching Captain Kangaroo", you'd be in the C range.  Throw the IRAC in there and surf the B curve all the way home.  After grad, it's all up to you, not some mark in some stupid course.  

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I assume there is a top 10% of the class still?


And to be in that I would assume you need to be mostly in the top 10% of all your classes?



When I was at U of T the distinction was graduating With Honours. This wasn't necessarily the top 10%, it was anyone who had an A average. In my cohort, there were 16 of us, so, fewer than 10%. Does a current student know how they handle this with the ridiculous no grade system?

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57 minutes ago, erinl2 said:

 

 


When I was at U of T the distinction was graduating With Honours. This wasn't necessarily the top 10%, it was anyone who had an A average. In my cohort, there were 16 of us, so, fewer than 10%. Does a current student know how they handle this with the ridiculous no grade system?

 

Oh, they still have grades, they're just stupid grades.  They just relabelled everything - I suspect nothing has changed. 

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3 hours ago, onepost said:

Yes, there is still distinction. The precise percentile of the cutoff changes year to year, but is around 10%. This year, as far as I know, straight Hs + 1 or 2 HHs sufficed. Which supports my point. 

And yes, again, grades are obviously correlated. The question is the strength of the correlation. 

That was actually enough last year? Wow, that's way different from my year. I knew people with 4 HHs and 3Hs who missed it (due to their HHs being in lower weighted classes), and people with 4 HHs who made it. 

Statistically there are 210 HHs available across all classes. My assumption was that roughly 100 are taken up by those in the top 10% who I assumed average 5, and then the rest distributed among everyone else with a lump in the group in the top 10-25% range. This would mean that some students can have a random HH (and many do), but that they're concentrated at the top. 

But again, anecdotal, so who knows. All I know for sure is that personally, I think the self reported UV numbers are exaggerated, but unless the admin reports the real numbers we won't know for sure. 

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28 minutes ago, DenningsSkiTrip said:

That was actually enough last year? Wow, that's way different from my year. I knew people with 4 HHs and 3Hs who missed it (due to their HHs being in lower weighted classes), and people with 4 HHs who made it. 

Statistically there are 210 HHs available across all classes. My assumption was that roughly 100 are taken up by those in the top 10% who I assumed average 5, and then the rest distributed among everyone else with a lump in the group in the top 10-25% range. This would mean that some students can have a random HH (and many do), but that they're concentrated at the top. 

But again, anecdotal, so who knows. All I know for sure is that personally, I think the self reported UV numbers are exaggerated, but unless the admin reports the real numbers we won't know for sure. 

I think relying on what people SAY about their grades in law school will lead to pretty inaccurate conclusions being drawn. When I was in law school, the prof I did research for told me he only gave out, say, 10 As. Then at least 12 or 13 people in conversation would claim they got one....

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38 minutes ago, DenningsSkiTrip said:

That was actually enough last year? Wow, that's way different from my year. I knew people with 4 HHs and 3Hs who missed it (due to their HHs being in lower weighted classes), and people with 4 HHs who made it. 

Statistically there are 210 HHs available across all classes. My assumption was that roughly 100 are taken up by those in the top 10% who I assumed average 5, and then the rest distributed among everyone else with a lump in the group in the top 10-25% range. This would mean that some students can have a random HH (and many do), but that they're concentrated at the top. 

But again, anecdotal, so who knows. All I know for sure is that personally, I think the self reported UV numbers are exaggerated, but unless the admin reports the real numbers we won't know for sure. 

If Hs are like B+s I wouldn't think you could get distinction (which I think of as top 10% or so) with 3 of them. 

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28 minutes ago, providence said:

If Hs are like B+s I wouldn't think you could get distinction (which I think of as top 10% or so) with 3 of them. 

I don't know, I graduated with honours and my grades were pretty evenly split As and B+s. 

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2 minutes ago, maximumbob said:

I don't know, I graduated with honours and my grades were pretty evenly split As and B+s. 

I will refrain from what might be a humblebrag response, LOL. I think it does change from year to year and grades are trending upwards.

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11 minutes ago, providence said:

I will refrain from what might be a humblebrag response, LOL. I think it does change from year to year and grades are trending upwards.

Why, don't stop me! ;)

 

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On 9/9/2017 at 1:57 PM, DenningsSkiTrip said:

What are you even talking about?

The OP said they got one A in "a class unrelated to corporate law", whatever that means, I think we can assume it's a non black letter course, and then straight Bs in everything else. I'm not suggesting that straight Ps with an HH in LRW or LPPE is middle of the pack, I'm saying that THOSE ARE THE EQUIVALENT GRADES THAT THE OP WOULD HAVE IF THEY ATTENDED U OF T. 

As far as I'm concerned this should all be clear if you read the OP. I'm out. 

Though this response IS a month after the discussion, the course I had an A in was Criminal Law, but I stated it as unrelated as I was under the impression that the full service firms don't really care about Crim grades.

As far as I know, approximately 25-40% of students receive a C+ or lower in my school (U of M).

From what I gather, I guess I should prepare myself for a career in Crim :lol:

Edited by Igni

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18 minutes ago, Igni said:

Though this response IS a month after the discussion, the course I had an A in was Criminal Law, but I stated it as unrelated as I was under the impression that the full service firms don't really care about Crim grades.

As far as I know, approximately 25-40% of students receive a C+ or lower in my school (U of M).

From what I gather, I guess I should prepare myself for a career in Crim 

Op for future readers, how many interviews were you ultimately able to book ?

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