NewAccount2012

Teaching Law

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Does anyone have any insight about how to obtain a job instructing? I don't mean teaching at a law school but maybe at a college? Or even guest lecturing? I was always curious to find out how people got these positions and how people manage to instruct and still have a full time practice on the side. Any insight would be greatly appreciated. 

 

 

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Posted (edited)

I don't know about that, I just shared my experience in Asia. Lots of my professor hold PH.d in law from abroad law, primarily Germany, some are from USA from T14 or Tier 1. Some of them might have a number of publication, journal , books. or whatever. But most of these type of professor generally never passed Lawyer license exam (a very highly competitive exam, only a few exceptions manage to pass. )  I have  a few number of lecturer passed lawyer license but also hold ph.d of law at domestic country and be able to  lecture  a few course as try out. It sometimes also related to position available or if instructor in that particular specialty is in dire need.  They can be qualified to  lecture in my school for one or two classes.  I think I have a prosecutor instructors, but I think he probably get Master of law. I think he is one of a few exception, probably has more practical experiences of criminal procedure or criminal law. I think law school sometimes like to  give alumni a slightly more chance to try if alumni are suitable candidates .

I ever attend other law school before current one. It is  more like open university with department of law that everyone can enroll but it actually served  function like community college of law for one or two year of preparation at most...  I think even the previous school I attend, also has high standard of lecturer.  Most of my teachers at that school were  still be very highly selective because when I browsed through their education background respectively,.., Instructors were at least hold Master of law in and at least need to be certified lawyer  in my country. That's very minimal requirement in order to lecture us some basic concept of law.. 

I think I had friend lecturing in private sectors such as community center to increase community legal knowledge ?  But I think he got a LLM and certified lawyer.

I don't know about Canada. 

I think you can go to college and law school web site and browse through their instructors education background and try to read their instructor qualification first.

Edited by akulamasusu

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The hiring process for these sorts of lecturer positions is very random.  Sometimes they are advertised formally (i.e. on the careers section of a university or college website), sometimes they are advertised informally (i.e. a college needs an instructor in labour law and they email a labour law prof at a  law school to ask that prof to spread the word), sometimes the prospective instructor approaches the school or meets someone from the school and asks about teaching a class, etc.  There is really no set process from school to school.

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Maybe send a message to Omar Ha-Redeye and find out how he did it.  

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I spoke to some people in real life and they all gave me vogue non-answers. 

I saw a few job posts over the years and the colleges were looking for very experienced people with an LLM to teach basic courses in first year. Which is surprising because when I was in law school we certainly had sessional profs that were only a few years out of law school themselves.   

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Posted (edited)

I just share with my teachers' experiences in Asia, I don't know about Canada.

I think one of civil teacher coming back from Germany with ph.d in law, he just asked his undergraduate LLB "teacher", to give him a teaching post. He probably could not find one himself. His teacher is very well known professor and have a number of  law books for sale and sale well. His teacher use connection to find him bottom ranking law school as starter because of lack of teaching experiences. (My teacher write lots of journals or critiques of laws later on ) "The line is to get some Connection if possible + go to community or community college at first if no teaching experience "

My criminal law professor confessed on his FB, that before he got his phd. Germany law school itself is almost free of tuition. He went Germany with two luggage only and  live with  DAAD  scholarship or whatever. When he first come back, he could not find any job, so he also went to bottom ranking law school as starter. He only lecturer a few law classes at first and it's not even full time faculty. It's just later on he be employed as full time faculty. He later on become really  famous criminal professor, selling lots of criminal law books.

My Dean, coming back from America, t-14. He said he could find any teaching job at that time and experienced rough time when he came back to my country , somebody even said would if he still cannot find any teaching job, they would like to employ as secretary...He just wanted to say he had rough time in job hunt of teaching position, and just not as glamorous as  he is now..( he just outrage really easy )

I have business law teacher, I think he went to  (Tier 1) , but sometimes, I found he use "other law school teaching material or power point  "to deliver instruction. . ha ..But guess what , it might be a little bit questionable. But.. Those notes are neat, I personally like this teacher a lot because he sometimes had lots of interesting things to share besides laws,  running marathon, discussing of current event , sharing his law school in America, and traveling in America. 

(He use  "other law school teaching material or power point  "to deliver instruction but as far as the course run,   I like this guy, he is thoughtful and interesting person. )

 

( "they all start from bad one and go to better school, once they accumulate enough teaching experiences, or publication, journal, or books for sales or whatever" )

 

Perhaps I live in a major city, so there are 4-5 law school nearby each other. , my institution or my law school dean's will sometimes use connections to neighboring law school and find a few teacher to substitutes a few courses. My law school teacher will go to other neighboring law school , half an hour of drive to one hour of drive , to get extra teaching hours and extra pocket money. Other law school will teacher come to my law school and dropping resume , and want to help out. 

 

(Drop your resume, who else on earth would know you unless you drop the resume in person or send electronic resume in email or connections )

 

Before my current law school one, I was accepted into bottom ranked law and  OpenU law. Then I went to open university law program so that I can work and study at my leisure or free time.. Before I register with  law departments of open university, I actually reach bottleneck of self study of law. Initially. The way it lecture is completely technology based and online audio lecture, pre-record. I can use my free time and off work time to log on internet and listen to lectures sometimes instructed primarily by lawyers.  It could not be better to be assisted by lawyers in learning , they help me lay or build some foundation of legal knowledge.  I think it's positive and excellent learning experience from them.  The reason I go there is faculty member, instructors all lawyer with LLM primarily and my tuition is flat rate with both time  and access flexibility 

 

( I don't know if Canada has community college or college or whatever, you can deliver your teaching and try to polish it from there and make it better. Or you just can teach anything just besides the laws at first . Or can even go to community to teach law..I don't know if they open the classes like that..get some experience from there..If they want experience, then one probably has to find somewhere to accumulate that teaching experience first, anything may have similar weight or equivalency to that experience. community, community college )

 

Edited by akulamasusu

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On July 12, 2017 at 7:36 PM, NewAccount2012 said:

Does anyone have any insight about how to obtain a job instructing? I don't mean teaching at a law school but maybe at a college? Or even guest lecturing? I was always curious to find out how people got these positions and how people manage to instruct and still have a full time practice on the side. Any insight would be greatly appreciated. 

 

 

Yes. I currently teach at a private college in the gta and in fact my grasshoppers are taking their final exam as we speak. It's a pretty chill position but the pay isn't great. It's sort of suplementary income on the side because why not, right?  Other than that it at least gives you bragging rights and helps you land clients here and there so it sort of helps your advertising.

I am a new call and in the process of hussling it out. I am building my own practice from the ground up so this position accommodates that effort quite well. To that end I teach either at night during weekdays and weekend mornings as well.  While I am a new call I was a licensed paralegal prior to being called so that helped me land the gig. 

 

How to land a teaching position as a paralegal instructor at a college: check on indeed.ca regularly, I know for example that trios college is constantly hiring. I tried that college before landing this position but asked for $33.00 per hour. Apparently that was too much for them. I am at a different college though but that gives you an idea of the salary ranges as well.  

 

Let me know if you have any follow up questions.

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On 16/07/2017 at 11:10 AM, HopingHopper said:

Yes. I currently teach at a private college in the gta and in fact my grasshoppers are taking their final exam as we speak. It's a pretty chill position but the pay isn't great. It's sort of suplementary income on the side because why not, right?  Other than that it at least gives you bragging rights and helps you land clients here and there so it sort of helps your advertising.

I am a new call and in the process of hussling it out. I am building my own practice from the ground up so this position accommodates that effort quite well. To that end I teach either at night during weekdays and weekend mornings as well.  While I am a new call I was a licensed paralegal prior to being called so that helped me land the gig. 

 

How to land a teaching position as a paralegal instructor at a college: check on indeed.ca regularly, I know for example that trios college is constantly hiring. I tried that college before landing this position but asked for $33.00 per hour. Apparently that was too much for them. I am at a different college though but that gives you an idea of the salary ranges as well.  

 

Let me know if you have any follow up questions.

Thank you for posting the info, including hourly rate info.

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On ‎12‎/‎07‎/‎2017 at 8:36 PM, NewAccount2012 said:

Does anyone have any insight about how to obtain a job instructing? I don't mean teaching at a law school but maybe at a college? Or even guest lecturing? I was always curious to find out how people got these positions and how people manage to instruct and still have a full time practice on the side. Any insight would be greatly appreciated. 

 

 

Private colleges teaching courses will often advertise for instructors for paralegal course instructors, but based on the experiences of friends who have taught at these types of colleges they are not worth the pay. The students generally aren't great, and the schools are difficult to deal with. Public colleges, or even better, business schools at universities, often have "business law 101" courses (or a liberal arts course in law, though less frequently). I've found that these positions are generally filled by word of mouth - e.g. associate at your firm used to teach class, and now you are doing it - though sometimes by posting an ad. For anything taught at a law school, normally only very accomplished junior lawyers and senior practitioners are teaching courses (otherwise it's filled by an academic).

 

 

Edited by conge
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On July 16, 2017 at 11:10 AM, HopingHopper said:

Yes. I currently teach at a private college in the gta and in fact my grasshoppers are taking their final exam as we speak. It's a pretty chill position but the pay isn't great. It's sort of suplementary income on the side because why not, right?  Other than that it at least gives you bragging rights and helps you land clients here and there so it sort of helps your advertising.

I am a new call and in the process of hussling it out. I am building my own practice from the ground up so this position accommodates that effort quite well. To that end I teach either at night during weekdays and weekend mornings as well.  While I am a new call I was a licensed paralegal prior to being called so that helped me land the gig. 

 

How to land a teaching position as a paralegal instructor at a college: check on indeed.ca regularly, I know for example that trios college is constantly hiring. I tried that college before landing this position but asked for $33.00 per hour. Apparently that was too much for them. I am at a different college though but that gives you an idea of the salary ranges as well.  

 

Let me know if you have any follow up questions.

 

I have one friend that taught at a college in a paralegal program. She admitted that she got it through connections but said that one must have an LLM to work there. She also said that she got paid 50 an hour but thats just for instruction hours. Setting up the course and marking was unpaid. She said at the end of the day, it was more trouble than it was worth. HopingHopper, do you agree with that assessment? 

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While doing grad studies (my LLM and doctorate) I taught law to undergrad students.  That seems to pay way more than paralegal or other college programs.  The rate for teaching law to undergrads at the two universities where I taught is currently in the range of $7500-$8000 for teaching a 3 credit course.  Lots of work and perhaps not worth it the first time you do it, but well worth it after that.

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6 hours ago, NewAccount2012 said:

 

I have one friend that taught at a college in a paralegal program. She admitted that she got it through connections but said that one must have an LLM to work there. She also said that she got paid 50 an hour but thats just for instruction hours. Setting up the course and marking was unpaid. She said at the end of the day, it was more trouble than it was worth. HopingHopper, do you agree with that assessment? 

Maybe she was at a public college and the requirements are different for those I don't know but I can tell you that an LLM is definitely not required for a teaching position at a private college.  The Ministry of Training, Colleges and Universities makes all instructors fill out an Instructor Qualification Form.  One has to meet the requirements of s.41 of Reg 415/06.  That is, either 48 months of work experience in the vocation, OR 36 months of teaching experience in the vocation AND 24 months work experience in the vocation OR 24 months work experience in the vocation AND ether hold a bachelors degree from a Canadian university or an equivalent degree or be a graduate of a registered PCC or equivalent or be the holder of a certificate of qualification.  So yeah no LLM required.

It is true that grading and prepping hours are unpaid but if you know the material that you are teaching then prepping is very little really.  Also with respect to grading, the system in the college where I teach generates all of the questions and pregrades all multiple choice questions.  Students answer in their computers and the answers are given to me by the college. So effectively, a monkey could teach my course. 

I definitely do not see myself doing it forever but for the time being it's just extra cash.

Edited by HopingHopper
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14 hours ago, NewAccount2012 said:

 

I have one friend that taught at a college in a paralegal program. She admitted that she got it through connections but said that one must have an LLM to work there. She also said that she got paid 50 an hour but thats just for instruction hours. Setting up the course and marking was unpaid. She said at the end of the day, it was more trouble than it was worth. HopingHopper, do you agree with that assessment? 

In my experience, an LLM isn't required, in fact, paralegals often teach paralegal courses.

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