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cumulus

Any Canadian citizens go to HYS and stay in the United States?

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Have any Canadians (who aren't US citizens) attended HYS (or CCN etc.) and stayed in the States after to work? If so, do you have any thoughts, wisdom, insight from your experience that you could share? What has been the financial cost/benefit for you (qualitative answers are obviously fine)? How did you finance it, and did you pay sticker price? If you didn't, roughly how much financial aid did you have?

 

What has your work experience been like; do you find the work interesting? Are you mostly happy with your choices, and is there anything you'd do differently if you were doing things again? Would you still study/stay in the States?

 

What about the economic/political climate? A current 0L would graduate in 2020. Do you have any sense at all about whether it's becoming harder (and how much harder) to get a visa, find a job, etc. I'm assuming it would be only Biglaw that would be an option for those without American passports?

 

[sidenote: maybe I'm asking the wrong questions, too. I probably don't know enough to know what I should be asking... Please deviate wherever appropriate.]

 

Thank you so much for sharing your knowledge!

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Harvard Law School, Yale Law School, and Stanford Law School have occupied the top three spots for over a decade.  Together, they are called HYS.

 

The next three spots are perennial filled by the CCN schools: Columbia Law School, Chicago Law School, and NYU Law School.

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Posted (edited)

Harvard Law School, Yale Law School, and Stanford Law School have occupied the top three spots for over a decade. Together, they are called HYS.

 

The next three spots are perennial filled by the CCN schools: Columbia Law School, Chicago Law School, and NYU Law School.

I know! I'm asking if anyone here is Canadian, has attended one of these schools, and has stayed in the States to begin their career.

 

Edit: typo.

Edited by cumulus
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You are looking at the wrong place.

 

It would be better to ask here instead: http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/index.php.

I'm looking there, too. Unfortunately, I'm not sure it's the right place, either; previous few of the posters on that forum are Canadian. I guess that makes sense, just as precious few posters here have gone to American schools.

 

Thanks for your input, though!

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I know Canadian students who have attended HYS. Of those, some stay in the US. But it's probably only a minority who do. And of those, who become lawyers in the US, the odds you'll find one of them hanging around here dispensing advice is probably pretty damn low. So, you're as entitled as anyone to ask your questions, but I wouldn't hold out much hope that exactly the person you want to talk with is going to wander by any time soon.

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I know Canadian students who have attended HYS. Of those, some stay in the US. But it's probably only a minority who do. And of those, who become lawyers in the US, the odds you'll find one of them hanging around here dispensing advice is probably pretty damn low. So, you're as entitled as anyone to ask your questions, but I wouldn't hold out much hope that exactly the person you want to talk with is going to wander by any time soon.

I hear you, and that makes sense. I figured I'd lob this out here to see what came back, given that it cost me nothing.

 

Any other ideas where I might be able to reach out to someone?

 

It's a dizzying investment. I'm from a rural area, and I don't know anyone (or heck, even know anyone who knows anyone) who has the kind of experience to bring insight into what I should do.

 

(I'm aware that what I should do is pretty personal, but it's not so personal that general wisdom is irrelevant, and that's where it would be really great to find a Canadian with some insight.)

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Posted (edited)

There are several infrequent posters here who went to HYS. You should also ask on TLS... or autoadmit, both have active Canadian posters who went to the T6. 

Edited by Eeee

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Went to CCN. Lived in the United States for years after law school, then came back to Canada. PM me if you have questions.

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Im a 1L at a t14 so not exactly what youre looking for but ill throw my 2 cents in anyway. Took a full ride scholarship so financing wasnt an issue. Career services here does a lot to help you navigate through the VISA stuff. I get the sense that its not too difficult to figure that out especially if you want to work for a firm. Financially its been amazing. Again i took a full scholarship and i managed to get a couple of offers to work at firms this summer as a 1L summer associate so thats an extra 35k US for 10 weeks of summer work. If you want to work at a firm, 1L  and 2L summer positions are much harder to get at a school in Canada vs a T6/T14 and they pay less in Canada. From going through the interview process and talking to lawyers I get the sense that the legal market here is pretty solid rn despite the Cheeto in chief. PM if you have other questions. 

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From going through the interview process and talking to lawyers I get the sense that the legal market here is pretty solid rn despite the Cheeto in chief. 

Sounds like 'Ol Cheeto is going to be a stimulus package for constitutional, administrative, and immigration lawyers down there. So that makes sense. 

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Canadian currently at HYS, definitely mulling staying in the States. PM with any questions.

 

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Posted (edited)

I went to HYS with the intention of staying in the US but ended up back in Canada after a year in the US postgrad.  Feel free to PM me with any questions.

Edited by zuckerkorn

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Im a 1L at a t14 so not exactly what youre looking for but ill throw my 2 cents in anyway. Took a full ride scholarship so financing wasnt an issue. Career services here does a lot to help you navigate through the VISA stuff. I get the sense that its not too difficult to figure that out especially if you want to work for a firm. Financially its been amazing. Again i took a full scholarship and i managed to get a couple of offers to work at firms this summer as a 1L summer associate so thats an extra 35k US for 10 weeks of summer work. If you want to work at a firm, 1L  and 2L summer positions are much harder to get at a school in Canada vs a T6/T14 and they pay less in Canada. From going through the interview process and talking to lawyers I get the sense that the legal market here is pretty solid rn despite the Cheeto in chief. PM if you have other questions. 

 

I mean, your experience is not representative.  1L summer associate positions are extremely rare and generally available only to underrepresented minorities (which in a previous thread you identified yourself as).  Being an underrepresented minority also increases the likelihood of getting bigger scholarships.  Both of these are good things.  But they mean that your experience is unlikely to be replicated by OP and therefore should not be presented as expected results. If OP is also an underrepresented minority, that is a different story. 

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On 3/1/2017 at 10:31 PM, cumulus said:

Have any Canadians (who aren't US citizens) attended HYS (or CCN etc.) and stayed in the States after to work? If so, do you have any thoughts, wisdom, insight from your experience that you could share? What has been the financial cost/benefit for you (qualitative answers are obviously fine)? How did you finance it, and did you pay sticker price? If you didn't, roughly how much financial aid did you have?

 

What has your work experience been like; do you find the work interesting? Are you mostly happy with your choices, and is there anything you'd do differently if you were doing things again? Would you still study/stay in the States?

 

What about the economic/political climate? A current 0L would graduate in 2020. Do you have any sense at all about whether it's becoming harder (and how much harder) to get a visa, find a job, etc. I'm assuming it would be only Biglaw that would be an option for those without American passports?

 

[sidenote: maybe I'm asking the wrong questions, too. I probably don't know enough to know what I should be asking... Please deviate wherever appropriate.]

 

Thank you so much for sharing your knowledge!

1. 3L is, of course, a joke. I would use that time to study the 5 NCA subjects that you're guaranteed to get assigned. Make sure you take Corps so do you don't get assigned 6 NCA subjects. You never know -- might need to head back to Canada. HYS has good funding for internationals. I maxed out need-based aid at HLS. I'm not convinced I ended up spending significantly more than I would have at, say, UofT.

2. Work is great. Hours are dumb. Hours are also dumb biglaw in Canada, and States pays better, so at least there's that. Yes happy.

3. You're golden as long as NAFTA keeps the TN. Otherwise, it's a lot more questionable. Would proceed with caution. If H1B gets changed in a way that values income in particular (say, they install a 150k floor or something), you'd be safe on the H1B front though, I think. Still. At least if you want to do public interest, the loan repayment options at HYS will be helpful if you get sent back to Canada.

4. Canada is a better country in which to live than the USA. I'm not exactly in a rush to get back, but I'll definitely be returning. Once I'm there, I wonder if I might regret to some extent that my professional network is all scattered throughout the USA. At this point I think I made the right decisions, but ask me again in ten years. 

 

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Im at a T14. Law school itself in the US is great. Its only year of hard work, then if your at a T14 you get a firm job before 2L starts that doesnt care about grades (like really, they dont care. those firms give 100% offers and your grades will never be considered again). Then all of 2L and 3L you dick off.

T14 schools usually give you about a 70% chance to get a big firm gig (excluding Georgetown). And even given this, that bottom 30 is a mix or poor grades / horrible personality. I have a friend in the bottom 10% of the class and he got a firm gig that pays 180K. Like bottom 20 but being a good interview will get you a job out here.

Also, the US market is nuts right now, hence the pay raise. A handful of the top firms have seen 15-20% increases in profits per partner. Theres alot of work to go around. Also NYC summer 'jobs' are a joke. U get to the office at 10, stay til 5, then go to happy with lawyers. All while getting paid 3500USD.

The downside of course is that you have to pay a fuckton in tuition and isnt worth it without a large scholarship. 

I personally have no intention in going back to Canada. I love toronto but its only an hour flight from NYC. With bonus, ill make about 270CAD (with bonus) in my first year after graduating as opposed to 75k articling in toronto.

 

 

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Posted (edited)

Work visas are basically a non-issue for Canadians, thanks to NAFTA. I also got an H1b first-try in the H1B lottery, but unsure how representative that is. I don't know the numbers of people in the masters portion.
 

Edited by nerfco
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