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dual2018

Current 1L Dual. Ask me (almost) anything.

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What is a typical dual schedule throughout the weeks of Fall/Winter?

How far into the summer does 1L class go? And how many courses do you have to take in the summer of 1L? 

 

Thanks a ton! 

Edited by rickyjulianbubbles

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dual2018    8

What is a typical dual schedule throughout the weeks of Fall/Winter?

How far into the summer does 1L class go? And how many courses do you have to take in the summer of 1L? 

 

Thanks a ton! 

 

 

Typical schedule is 2 days a week at UDM, the other 3 at Windsor. This year we had:

 

Monday - criminal law at Windsor

Tuesday - research and writing at UDM, sometimes followed by a US contracts, property or criminal law module

Wednesday - constitutional law at windsor

Thursday - contracts and property at Windsor

Friday - research and writing at UDM, sometimes followed by a US contracts, property or criminal law module

 

As for the summer, you take two courses at UDM. They're 3-4 hour long classes, four days a week starting at 6pm. We start late May and end mid to late July. 

Edited by dual2018
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IPLaw071    3

I've heard that the Dual is a ton of work compared to the Single. How much time do you have left for volunteering, mooting, clubs, and other activities to help improve your resume for the inevitable future job hunt?

 

As well, with the high cost of tuition, how are students financing their studies?

 

Lastly, probably a very general question, but what kind of advice would you give to a prospective student about to start in September?

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dual2018    8

I've heard that the Dual is a ton of work compared to the Single. How much time do you have left for volunteering, mooting, clubs, and other activities to help improve your resume for the inevitable future job hunt?

 

As well, with the high cost of tuition, how are students financing their studies?

 

Lastly, probably a very general question, but what kind of advice would you give to a prospective student about to start in September?

 

 

We definitely have a lot more work that the singles, but you still have time to devote to other stuff. The US modules don't require the same amount of time you would put into your Canadian courses because there is not as much material covered. For example, you may go through 8-10 cases for any given topic of contracts, property or criminal law, but in the US you will probably only go through 3-4, so there is far less to take away from those lessons. A lot of people, if not everyone, is involved with something or the other. I can't think of one person who didn't do one extracurricular activity all year, if not more than one. 

 

The overwhelming majority have a student line of credit. Windsor has a deal with scotiabank for 150k lines at prime plus half. Some people also have OSAP. Keep in mind the school also had financial aid - this year they increased the amount to give out to dual students only by 50k, so that was helpful. 

 

I would tell a prospective student to enjoy their summer, because you're about to walk into a lot of work. To be fair, any single JD student would probably say this too. The duals schedule is pretty brutal when you incorporate all the events you want to go to, or tutorials (optional but most find them helpful) so its even more applicable to those prospective students. If you want to get a jump start on things, you could familiarize yourself with the court systems of both countries (history of the development of each, hierarchy, different circuits in the US, maybe look at the model penal code in the US vs the common law code) but nothing more than that.

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dual2018    8

We definitely have a lot more work that the singles, but you still have time to devote to other stuff. The US modules don't require the same amount of time you would put into your Canadian courses because there is not as much material covered. For example, you may go through 8-10 cases for any given topic of contracts, property or criminal law, but in the US you will probably only go through 3-4, so there is far less to take away from those lessons. A lot of people, if not everyone, is involved with something or the other. I can't think of one person who didn't do one extracurricular activity all year, if not more than one. 

 

The overwhelming majority have a student line of credit. Windsor has a deal with scotiabank for 150k lines at prime plus half. Some people also have OSAP. Keep in mind the school also had financial aid - this year they increased the amount to give out to dual students only by 50k, so that was helpful. 

 

I would tell a prospective student to enjoy their summer, because you're about to walk into a lot of work. To be fair, any single JD student would probably say this too. The duals schedule is pretty brutal when you incorporate all the events you want to go to, or tutorials (optional but most find them helpful) so its even more applicable to those prospective students. If you want to get a jump start on things, you could familiarize yourself with the court systems of both countries (history of the development of each, hierarchy, different circuits in the US, maybe look at the model penal code in the US vs the common law code) but nothing more than that.

 

I should clarify when I said "For example, you may go through 8-10 cases for any given topic of contracts, property or criminal law", I meant to say "For example, you may go through 8-10 cases for any given topic of contracts, property or criminal law FROM THE CANADIAN SIDE"

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purple    2

In your opinion and experience so far, do you think the dual program is worth it? Especially considering the tuition and the American component (if you don't care to possess an American JD)?

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dual2018    8

In your opinion and experience so far, do you think the dual program is worth it? Especially considering the tuition and the American component (if you don't care to possess an American JD)?

 

Its hard to say since I'm only a 1L. That question is better suited for an alumni of the program. I'll go off on a tangent here and say that despite its poor ranking, UDM does have some pretty neat opportunities that you wouldn't otherwise get at a Canadian school, like externing with a Judge. UDM also does really well in moots. Upper years can probably vouch for the clinic opportunities better than I, but something like the veterans law clinic in the US is far more interesting than in Canada. Of course its not worth paying close to triple the tuition just for these extra things. 

 

If you have absolutely no interest in the US side and have gotten into a different Canadian school and are okay with that going to that school, then you should go there. If you only got into the dual and not the single JD Windsor program, but you really want the Windsor JD, then its a judgement call. Keep in mind you can also try and transfer into the single JD program from the dual after 1L, but not vice-versa. 

 

The school can put you in touch with a dual alumni if you would like to get an answer to that question, but in my opinion, I would try and get in contact with one yourself rather than go through the school. They will likely put you in touch with someone who is doing very well, and/or who they know will only say positive things. 

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IPLaw071    3

Thanks a lot for all the info! It's been a huge help and I'm sure everyone appreciates it!

 

I was also hoping you may be able to share your overall opinion of the program based on your experiences as a 1L? As well, could you share your reasons for choosing to pursue a Dual JD?

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hermione    14

Hi, I was wondering if you needed a car for this program? I don't have one and was wondering if it would be difficult to travel from U Windsor to UDM so frequently.

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conge    604

This might be available online somewhere, but are there American/UDM students doing the Windsor JD, or is it just open to Canadian/Windsor students to do the UDM JD? (ie. does UDM have the dual program too, or just Windsor?)

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dual2018    8

Thanks a lot for all the info! It's been a huge help and I'm sure everyone appreciates it!

 

I was also hoping you may be able to share your overall opinion of the program based on your experiences as a 1L? As well, could you share your reasons for choosing to pursue a Dual JD?

 

Personally, I enjoy the program. It has its highs and lows, but overall its great. There are some administrative and scheduling issues that need to be handled, and sometimes having to go to both schools on the same day (very rare) is a pain in the ass, but nothing substantial enough that I would warn to take into consideration before coming here. In terms of academics, it's a lot of work but its not impossible. 

 

I chose the dual because I want to work in the US, and also because the Windsor JD to me is better than the other single JD programs that I was admitted to. I realize that's not a very helpful answer, but that was why. There are a lot of people who did get into different single JD programs, and there are also those who only came here because it was the only one they got into. Everyone has their reasons, but a good chunk of the class does have an interest in working in the US. 

 

 

Hi, I was wondering if you needed a car for this program? I don't have one and was wondering if it would be difficult to travel from U Windsor to UDM so frequently.

 

You don't need one. Most people do but its not absolutely necessary because everyone carpools to UDM. You will definitely have a way to get there. A lot of people who do have cars here sometimes don't even use them for weeks because there is no need. 

 

 

This might be available online somewhere, but are there American/UDM students doing the Windsor JD, or is it just open to Canadian/Windsor students to do the UDM JD? (ie. does UDM have the dual program too, or just Windsor?)

 

Its a dual program between both schools, so its open to everyone. Canadians apply to Windsor via OLSAS and select the dual option, and I would assume Americans apply to UDM through LSAC and do something similar. 

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hermione    14

Thanks so much, that's good to know I'm also leaning towards accepting because I'm from Ontario and this would allow me to practice in my home province once I complete law school.

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TrialPrep    309

Anyone who says they chose the dual program over another Canadian JD they were accepted to is lying. It's a last chance option for everyone.

Edited by TrialPrep

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FunnyLawName    435

Anyone who says they chose the dual program over another Canadian JD they were accepted to is lying. It's a last chance option for everyone.

 

Do you think there's any value in this comment? Especially in the context of this thread? What are you trying to achieve here?

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CanadianJD27    54

Current 2L/rising 3L Dual student here. I agree with what Dual2018 has been saying. Definitely a lot of pros and cons, and UDM does have many fantastic opportunities. There are many clinics where you get to work with real clients and go to court which is really cool.  I have made many amazing friends here; it's a small program so were all helping each other get through this. Unfortunately, the coordination between both schools is really poor, such as in regards to  exam schedules, class schedules, etc. Personally, I'm happy that I'm here but I understand people's criticism of the program. If you have an interest in practising in Canada and the United States, I think you should definitely consider this program. Keep in mind that you can still write a US bar for most states though (including California and New York) with a Canadian JD. Having an additional legal background has absolutely helped me better understand how the law operates in Canada but at the same time, because they're squeezing in two degrees in three years, I feel like we're missing out on some aspects. For instance, in 2L the majority of our classes are US focused with some Canadian content. As most of us are Canadian students and would 99% be based in Canada (atleast in the beginning of our careers), I think it would be more beneficial if there was a Dual Canadian focused program for Canadian students, and a Dual American focused program for Americans. 

Edited by CanadianJD27
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CanadianJD27    54

=

 

Do you think there's any value in this comment? Especially in the context of this thread? What are you trying to achieve here?

Pretty sure they're not even a law student or at least not in Windsor. There's a lot of trolls on these forums. 

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IPLaw071    3

Current 2L/rising 3L Dual student here. I agree with what Dual2018 has been saying. Definitely a lot of pros and cons, and UDM does have many fantastic opportunities. There are many clinics where you get to work with real clients and go to court which is really cool.  I have made many amazing friends here; it's a small program so were all helping each other get through this. Unfortunately, the coordination between both schools is really poor, such as in regards to  exam schedules, class schedules, etc. Personally, I'm happy that I'm here but I understand people's criticism of the program. If you have an interest in practising in Canada and the United States, I think you should definitely consider this program. Keep in mind that you can still write a US bar for most states though (including California and New York) with a Canadian JD. Having an additional legal background has absolutely helped me better understand how the law operates in Canada but at the same time, because they're squeezing in two degrees in three years, I feel like we're missing out on some aspects. For instance, in 2L the majority of our classes are US focused with some Canadian content. As most of us are Canadian students and would 99% be based in Canada (atleast in the beginning of our careers), I think it would be more beneficial if there was a Dual Canadian focused program for Canadian students, and a Dual American focused program for Americans. 

 

I've heard that due to the nature of getting 2 degrees in 3 years, there's a lot more required courses, which makes difficult taking more specialized courses which are electives. Have you found this to be the case? I'm really interested in their Advanced Intellectual Property courses at UDM but I heard other students weren't able to fit it into their schedules.

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CanadianJD27    54

1st year we have 5 required courses, no electives. Second year we have 2 required per semester. 3rd year we have 1 full year required course, and two other courses you need to complete at some point either in 2L or 3L. The main issue is that on top of all of that you have "modules" which are the US/Canadian equivalent to the Dual course you're taking. So in 1L, all of your courses are Canadian focused, but you have US modules every few weeks to get in the US content for your Property, Crim, Contracts etc. 2nd year its reversed, the required Dual courses (Professional Responsibility, Evidence, Torts, and Bus Orgs) are US focused, but every few weeks you have Canadian modules to get in the Canadian content. So its not that you have extra "classes" its more so you have extra lectures if anything. But those modules don't have their own extra assigments or anything, everything is testable at the end of the semester. 

 

Definitely a lot of required class time, but I wouldn't make my decision on law school based upon electives. Every law school will have required courses which conflict with cool electives. Just how it is but there are tons of incredible opportunities and the schools are really accommodating. First semester one of our dual required classes at UDM ended with only 10-15 minutes (can't remember exactly) before the start of a UWindsor elective that a lot of people were taking. So UDM let those kids actually get out of class 30 minutes early to make it across the border to their class. The schools can plan their schedules and coordinate much better than they do, it's probably everyone's biggest complaint, the lack of coordination and organization between both programs. But if you have something you're interested in, they will try and accommodate you. 

Edited by CanadianJD27

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CanadianJD27    54

Anyone who says they chose the dual program over another Canadian JD they were accepted to is lying. It's a last chance option for everyone.

 

Cool story bro

Edited by CanadianJD27
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