Jump to content
Uriel

Fourth-year Bay Street Litigation Associate - AMA

Recommended Posts

Thanks for your time Uriel. This is awesome.

 

If you'd indulge me, I have a few more questions.

 

What makes a good principal? What makes a bad principal? 

 

What kinds of questions do you (or your peers) like being asked by students on firm tours?

Edited by SaucyIntruder

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
KOMODO    606

A lot of full service firms sell the fact that students can decide what they want to practice pretty far into the summer/articling/associate process. I'm wondering when you think that freedom ends. Can a first year associate decide that litigation isn't for them after all and try to move to transactional work? Can an articling student campaign for a different practice group with 1 or 2 month left?

 

I guess I'm curious to hear when you feel an individual gets "locked in" to their given area, within the firm (obviously leaving the firm really broadens the options).

 

I have a different take on this than Uriel, so I figured that I'd give you another perspective. For reference, I work at a large full-service Bay Street firm (but am not a litigator).

 

I don't think it's really practical to switch groups within a big firm as an associate. Once you're hired into a group, you're generally there to stay unless you lateral out. If you're lateralling to another large firm, you're likely to stay in the same general practice area, though you might be able to wiggle slightly (i.e. you're in the Banking Law practice group at Firm A, but banking is a part of the general corporate department at Firm B, and once you're hired into the general corporate department at Firm B you can begin to dabble in securities as well). From what I've seen, it takes lateralling to a smaller or mid-size firm (or gov/in-house) to switch practice areas entirely.

 

Even as an articling student, relationships form early. I think that by halfway through articling, most people know where they'd like to end up and the average group will have their eye on a few students who have done well. There are a few outliers who are hired into a practice group that they visited later in articling, but they're more the exception than the rule.

 

As a result, summer is really your time to experiment. Be eager and enthusiastic wherever you go, keep an open mind, and ask associates about the aspects of practice that they like and dislike. Past the barrister vs. solicitor divide, you're likely to choose a practice area based on the individuals working there rather than the work itself, so try and get to know your colleagues as people if possible!

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
maximumbob    5950

I'm with Komodo.  Although I have known very junior associates to move within firms, it is rare, and typically it represents an evolution of their practice using overlapping skill sets rather than a radical shift (e.g., corporate lawyer to corporate litigator dealing with corporate governance, corporate lawyer to finance lawyer, etc.).  And the reality is, if the firm hires you as a corporate lawyer, not a litigator, it's because they need a corporate lawyer, not a litigator - you can only make a change if it fits with the firm's needs.  In practice, there aren't many opportunities, and it becomes harder and harder as you become more experienced and specialized in a particular area. 

 

Try to get as much exposure to different practice areas while you're a student, so you can make an informed decision about what you want to do in the future.  

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
KOMODO    606

That is not reassuring, haha. I figured things would get better in time; at a large firm, I am supposed to 'know' what I'm getting myself into. I guess my question is how much of your life do you have to sacrifice in order to do well at your work (as a student and young associate)? I fear I may have to miss out on a lot of my life with my friends, family, relationships, etc. in order to truly excel in the early stages of my career at a large firm. Is this accurate?

 

What about relationships? Are they even remotely possible as a student or young associate? Would you have to essentially live with your partner in order to ensure you saw them more than once every two weeks?

 

How did you approach the early stages of your work - as a summer student, articling student, and as a young associate? Did you just never make plans with friends or family out of concern something may come up at work? Did you miss out on a lot? Were you unable to do a lot of the stuff you wanted to do (i.e., go to the gym daily, play a sport, etc.)? I realize my question is quite vague and I'm doing my best to phrase it in a way that's easy to respond to. I'm just concerned about maintaining a balance in my life from the get-go but I fear it's not possible.

 

There's no easy way around it - you'll need to make significant sacrifices at times. Articling is unlikely to demand 100% of your time through all 10 months, but you'll probably have a few months where you do nothing but work, eat and sleep.

 

Several reasons that long hours are necessary when you're a junior:

 

1) There is no substitute for spending the time to learn something from scratch. It might be a pain to spend 50 hours completing research from first principles or drafting a contract for the first time, but once you've done it, nobody can take that knowledge away from you. Our bills are calculated using year of call as a marker because experience is so valuable. The next time you're drafting an agreement, you'll remember to add an anti-contra proferentem clause because it was in the last 20 contracts you reviewed.

 

2) When your client calls the partner and needs an answer in two days, the partner may take a few hours to think about the work and assign part of it to an associate. He'll want the associate to return the work in a day so that he can review it. The associate will take an hour or two to review the assignment and re-assign part of it to a student, and again, will want buffer time to review. As a result, the student has only 6-8 hours to complete the required research. What began as a reasonable two-day request just turned into an emergent late night for you.

 

3) Students are generally younger, more flexible, and less likely to have a family. In my experience, it's generally accepted that you (as a student or first year call) will sacrifice your night at the movies so that the senior associate doesn't miss his son's baseball game. If something urgent comes up, you're the most likely to be on call (assuming it's something within your skill set).

 

So....the short answer is that maintaining a balanced life will not always be possible. However, you will get breaks and you'll learn to make the most of them. Hopefully your friends/family/partner are understanding if you need to reschedule something last minute. It is possible to reserve time on occasion (if something is really important) but you must be careful not to block yourself out too often. Remember that even if you "escape" work without incurring the wrath of a senior, you will have sacrificed the experience and you'll be less prepared for the next assignment. As you get more comfortable, you'll know when you can pass on something and when it's essential to reschedule your personal plans.

 

These heavy demands make it even more important to ensure that you actually enjoy the work. I couldn't do this job if I didn't love it.

  • Like 7

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
realpseudonym    337

These heavy demands make it even more important to ensure that you actually enjoy the work. I couldn't do this job if I didn't love it.

 

 

This feels like a strange question to ask. But what constitutes enjoying work? I think I like law school. The cases are sometimes interesting. So is class. And compared with other jobs I’ve had, some areas of practice seem appealing (i.e., occasionally exciting, sometimes meaningful, not usually mind-numbingly tedious and rarely physically painful). 

 
I don’t have a tonne of work experience. Most of it's pretty low-level. However, I’ve never really had a job I liked very much — just ones I hated and others I could tolerate. Where’s a good place to set my expectations? I assume I’ll be able to create little revenue early on. Given that, if I get a job that doesn’t make me noticeably sad, then is that a good job to stay in for a while? Is tolerable good? 
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
KOMODO    606

 

This feels like a strange question to ask. But what constitutes enjoying work? I think I like law school. The cases are sometimes interesting. So is class. And compared with other jobs I’ve had, some areas of practice seem appealing (i.e., occasionally exciting, sometimes meaningful, not usually mind-numbingly tedious and rarely physically painful). 

 
I don’t have a tonne of work experience. Most of it's pretty low-level. However, I’ve never really had a job I liked very much — just ones I hated and others I could tolerate. Where’s a good place to set my expectations? I assume I’ll be able to create little revenue early on. Given that, if I get a job that doesn’t make me noticeably sad, then is that a good job to stay in for a while? Is tolerable good? 

 

 

Ooh, tough one. I think you need more than tolerability but less than perfection. There need to be days when you look forward to going in - they usually happen when you spend a long, hard day solving a problem and are excited to share the answer with your client/partner. If you get satisfaction from the work, and you're pumped to move on to the next step, that's a win. If something good happens and you can't wait to tell your colleagues, you're probably in a good place.

 

Conversely, it's fine to have days that suck. I have had nights that ended with crying in my office after realizing a screw-up or just from pure exhaustion. It's okay to have some files that you'd rather not handle, and everyone has times when they'd rather be doing something other than work - it's still work.

 

The red flags for me would be the following:

- you dread seeing the people you work with/feel sick about having to work with them/feel like they don't have your back

- when you finish a file, it gives you no pleasure/sense of accomplishment

- there's nothing to look forward to - you're not working towards landing a new client or handling a new type of matter that would be exciting for you

- you daydream about escaping or doing something else

  • Like 7

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Uriel    6939

How much would you say your answers translate to big firms outside of Toronto (say, Ottawa)? 

 

I'm keeping in mind your disclaimers that you are not a mega authority on any specific issue and that your answers revolve around experience in a big firm in Toronto. But I'm curious if your experience working in a firm, or in dealing with firms, that have offices nationwide, means you can say with any degree of confidence that the circumstances you describe are likely similar in big firms in other big cities. 

 

Hard to say, but I imagine it's largely the same.  The billable targets don't fluctuate that wildly, so I have to imagine the schedule and attendant time management issues don't change that much.

 

Thanks for your time Uriel. This is awesome.

 

If you'd indulge me, I have a few more questions.

 

What makes a good principal? What makes a bad principal? 

 

What kinds of questions do you (or your peers) like being asked by students on firm tours?

 

What makes a good or bad principal:  I'd say empathy is the main factor.  I've had three "formal" mentors at this point --- we rotate based on evaluations --- and the good ones were the ones that followed up about whether I was actually okay with the hours in a given month or if I was just being a cheerful soldier; that introduced me to their families and gave me a sense of what it would be like joining the partnership.  

 

The less good, but still not bad one, I valued for his blunt honesty about the nature of the legal business.  But I wasn't too keen about his "more hours is objectively better no matter what" approach.  That being said, I did get a really, really important piece of advice out of him to the effect that people quit Biglaw too soon.  First you work for everyone at a moment's notice, which is stressful and frantic, and then you're sandwiched between being everyone's monkey and being responsible for students that might be terrible (this is where I am now), which is even more stressful --- and at that point you start getting offers to leave.  But right after that phase is the part where you're in charge and really just collaborating with senior counsel that trust you and include you in scheduling and strategy.  He was of the view that you should always stick it out for five years, because that's how long it takes to get a sense of what it's actually like.  Not sure I buy it 100%, but it's been a valuable viewpoint.

 

Best questions:  Anything that suggests (respectfully) that you're actually using your brain and getting engaged in your own career.  85% of students at OCIs and firm tours ask the three or four questions that their CDO recommends.  I've had tough questions asked of me by students about the firm's prospects and exposure to certain subjects; or fairly blunt questions about hireback or articling, and I've appreciated that because it shows someone that doesn't just float from task to task like a robot.  It shows someone that is really trying to plan out what career move to make.  

 

But, I would refrain from prefacing such a question with "Let's cut the bullshit though, bro".  That was less of a glowing moment.

 

What is the correct response to 'do you like my bird?'

 

"Is enough made of the fact that some birds can speak English?  Because I don't think so."

 

I have a different take on this than Uriel, so I figured that I'd give you another perspective. For reference, I work at a large full-service Bay Street firm (but am not a litigator).

 

 

I'm with Komodo. 

 

This is a great demonstration of why you should really, really take my caveats seriously.  Every firm is a completely different business, and each is run differently.  It looks like my firm is the exception to a rule here.

 

That should also twig you to the fact that there are some really good questions that you can ask during OCIs and firm tours about how the firm actually operates and what its business model is, instead of asking us to describe our mentorship and pro bono programs.

 

There's no easy way around it - you'll need to make significant sacrifices at times. Articling is unlikely to demand 100% of your time through all 10 months, but you'll probably have a few months where you do nothing but work, eat and sleep.

 

Several reasons that long hours are necessary when you're a junior:

 

1) There is no substitute for spending the time to learn something from scratch. It might be a pain to spend 50 hours completing research from first principles or drafting a contract for the first time, but once you've done it, nobody can take that knowledge away from you. Our bills are calculated using year of call as a marker because experience is so valuable. The next time you're drafting an agreement, you'll remember to add an anti-contra proferentem clause because it was in the last 20 contracts you reviewed.

 

2) When your client calls the partner and needs an answer in two days, the partner may take a few hours to think about the work and assign part of it to an associate. He'll want the associate to return the work in a day so that he can review it. The associate will take an hour or two to review the assignment and re-assign part of it to a student, and again, will want buffer time to review. As a result, the student has only 6-8 hours to complete the required research. What began as a reasonable two-day request just turned into an emergent late night for you.

 

3) Students are generally younger, more flexible, and less likely to have a family. In my experience, it's generally accepted that you (as a student or first year call) will sacrifice your night at the movies so that the senior associate doesn't miss his son's baseball game. If something urgent comes up, you're the most likely to be on call (assuming it's something within your skill set).

 

So....the short answer is that maintaining a balanced life will not always be possible. However, you will get breaks and you'll learn to make the most of them. Hopefully your friends/family/partner are understanding if you need to reschedule something last minute. It is possible to reserve time on occasion (if something is really important) but you must be careful not to block yourself out too often. Remember that even if you "escape" work without incurring the wrath of a senior, you will have sacrificed the experience and you'll be less prepared for the next assignment. As you get more comfortable, you'll know when you can pass on something and when it's essential to reschedule your personal plans.

 

These heavy demands make it even more important to ensure that you actually enjoy the work. I couldn't do this job if I didn't love it.

 

That's a great answer, especially #2.  I think I did a bad job explaining that above.

 

Also, in terms of #3, every organization --- whether it's a union, the military, or a law firm --- treasures the idea of paying your dues.  Someone has to do the crap work sometimes.  And Mrs. Uriel has been through so many broken dinner dates and say-hi-to-your-friends-for-me drinks that it's just a fresh spring breeze to see her face when I can promise to be somewhere.  

 

There's a post on this forum somewhere where I rage about an articling student that pouted until I agreed to take back the work I assigned to him because he had a Christmas party to go to, and I had a dinner party.  I've been taking these bullets since 2009.  It's my turn to have someone dive in front of them for me.  More importantly, it's my wife's turn to have someone take these bullets for us.

 

And don't think for a moment we don't remember how crappy it is, or that we don't appreciate it.  But let's be real.  Where else is a 25 year old going to get paid $110,000 at an entry-level position?  You're not making that kind of money because you're good at e-mail.

 

 

This feels like a strange question to ask. But what constitutes enjoying work? I think I like law school. The cases are sometimes interesting. So is class. And compared with other jobs I’ve had, some areas of practice seem appealing (i.e., occasionally exciting, sometimes meaningful, not usually mind-numbingly tedious and rarely physically painful). 

 
I don’t have a tonne of work experience. Most of it's pretty low-level. However, I’ve never really had a job I liked very much — just ones I hated and others I could tolerate. Where’s a good place to set my expectations? I assume I’ll be able to create little revenue early on. Given that, if I get a job that doesn’t make me noticeably sad, then is that a good job to stay in for a while? Is tolerable good? 

 

 

I've had a slate of really terrible jobs that I hated, and I had one job that was really cushy.  That one was tough to leave for law school; I would have been making $70,000 with a killer health plan for 35 hours a week and really slack duties.  That would have been a good job to keep, but I went to law school instead.

 

So here's what I've gathered in my 32 wee years so far on this planet.  A job that pays you enough to live comfortably and doesn't make you want to die is at least an okay job.  Not a lot of people get to enjoy their job, and you shouldn't expect that as a baseline entitlement.  People might enjoy parts of their job, but virtually no one is having a good time, all the time.  I mean, look at George R.R. Martin, living the life, being a rich and famous celebrity by making up fairy tales and writing for a living.  And the stress is killing him.  Professional athletes are miserable a lot of the time: performance concerns, criticism, lack of job security... no job is simply enjoyable from top to bottom.  Every job consists of supplying a demand in the market.  Responding to demands isn't usually fun.

 

The jobs I hated were the ones where I woke up in the morning and dragged myself to work.  Where I had to steel myself, let out a breath, put on the headphones and push the button.  Ugh, here it goes.  A job where you're constantly watching the clock and doing the math about how much longer until you're done.  You know it's really bad when you start doing analogies.  "Okay, well, it's another two hours and ten minutes but that's basically how long the movie was last night and that roared by, so you're basically done."

 

The two good jobs I've had --- the cushy one and this one --- were ones where I just felt neutrally about going to work.  Up in the morning, and off I go.  Maybe I think a bit about what I'll do first when I get there.  A big plus in terms of this job is how often I get out of bed excited to get to work and to pop into a courtroom or to write something that's really going to take the other side down.

 

What makes a job good for you requires a lot of uncomfortable introspection.  The reasons why I like this job aren't all noble and shiny, but you have to take the time to consider your motives.  

 

I was going to be a professor, but I'm too goal-oriented and too bad at self-motivation.  I need deadlines and I need to win things, overcome things, in order to feel satisfied.  

 

I thought about being a writer for a while but I really just wasn't that good at it.  

 

I'm terrible at doing the same thing every day and I get bored easily, and litigation gives me a new case with new facts in a new industry every couple of months.  

 

I like having a job that is pretty cool, and that lets me know some stuff that most people don't know, and to be useful in ways that other people aren't.  Being an electrician, a lawyer, a nurse... having a useful skill and a valuable perspective is important to me.

 

I hate just being a cog, doing a job anyone else can do --- I don't even like shooter games because my outcome is the same as everyone else's --- and this job lets me be creative and to approach problems in my own way.

 

I like being my own boss, and I prefer not to know for sure that I'm going to hit a cap on my success.  In theory, if I really work hard, I could make millions in this job.  I almost certainly won't, but I like the feeling of knowing that I get paid according to my performance and not just X dollars no matter what I do.

 

I'm terrible at working with my hands, and this job lets me just use my noodle and my words.

 

And if I'm being totally honest, being a big shiny lawyer isn't that bad for the ol' vanity.  Though I'd probably be equally proud of running my own little shop somewhere.

 

So it all kind of worked out.  The last job was pretty good too, but what ultimately tore it for me was that I didn't really have any friends there, and was unlikely to make any.  I love working with lawyers: other critical, well-informed, reasonably discerning people that aren't afraid to be interested in things like the arts, or food, or culture, or to talk politics or philosophy.  That's made a huge impact on my quality of life.

 

TL;DR: A job is good enough if it makes you comfortable without making you wish your life would pass by faster.  A job is actually good, and should be treasured, if you don't resent going in and there are flashes of actually enjoying the work and the people you work with.  Just my subjective opinion.

  • Like 10

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Diplock    9514

I just want to say that I'm jealous of Uriel's AMA and I think I'll do one around the end of next week when I have time.

 

I also want to say that it's utterly fascinating to watch the evolution of people's careers, over long periods of time, on this board. Uriel is one of the best examples, but still just one of many. It's amazing to be reminded where Komodo is now. I still catch myself thinking of Komodo as a student, and of Uriel as a newly minted associate (which I had to update from my impressions of him as a student) and of others in similar ways. Bob showed up here as a lawyer already. He's just Bob. But man, everyone else...

 

This board, for all the drama and the shit sometimes, really is one of the best resources around - increasingly not just for law students but for legal professionals full stop. And huge props to all the folks who are making that happen.

  • Like 14

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
kcraigsejong    440

It seems like Sam Walker from Henein Hutchison has done some work that was related to international human rights. I thought reading his bio was really interesting; it helped me appreciate how exceptional you need to be.

 

 

"Samuel Walker’s practice is focused on criminal and regulatory litigation. Prior to joining Henein Hutchison in 2013, he was a law clerk to the Honourable Justice Morris Fish of the Supreme Court of Canada and trained for a year at leading barristers’ chambers in London, England as a Harold Fox Scholar.

 

Sam is a graduate of Yale University (B.A., History) and McGill University’s Faculty of Law (B.C.L., LL.B.), where he earned a number of academic distinctions. He studied as a Gates Scholar at the University of Cambridge, Trinity College, graduating in 2011 with the Clive Parry Prize for receiving the highest standing in the master’s programme in international law (LL.M.)."

 

 

 

Uh, guys. He went abroad AND he has an LLM. I think we all know what that means.

Edited by kcraigsejong
  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Dwarvishleaf    305

I just want to say that I'm jealous of Uriel's AMA and I think I'll do one around the end of next week when I have time.

 

I'm sure it's going to be a great read, but please, I beg of you, change your avatar before this happens.

 

Kittyshark makes me want to simultaneously run away in fear and vomit. Seeing it ten times on a single page...bad things might happen.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Uh, guys. He went abroad AND he has an LLM. I think we all know what that means.

 

I assume this is sarcasm?

 

 

 

TL;DR: A job is good enough if it makes you comfortable without making you wish your life would pass by faster.  A job is actually good, and should be treasured, if you don't resent going in and there are flashes of actually enjoying the work and the people you work with.  Just my subjective opinion.

 

I identify with this - and your experience with pre-law school jobs - so much. Like you, I've had a few jobs I hated (at one point, I started breaking my shift down into 5-minute chunks to make it feel like time was passing at all) and one job that's mostly OK, has a set schedule/decent pay/almost complete stability...but no challenge. Definitely, both are factors in why I'm going to law school next year.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Uriel    6939

I just want to say that I'm jealous of Uriel's AMA and I think I'll do one around the end of next week when I have time.

 

I also want to say that it's utterly fascinating to watch the evolution of people's careers, over long periods of time, on this board. Uriel is one of the best examples, but still just one of many. It's amazing to be reminded where Komodo is now. I still catch myself thinking of Komodo as a student, and of Uriel as a newly minted associate (which I had to update from my impressions of him as a student) and of others in similar ways. Bob showed up here as a lawyer already. He's just Bob. But man, everyone else...

 

This board, for all the drama and the shit sometimes, really is one of the best resources around - increasingly not just for law students but for legal professionals full stop. And huge props to all the folks who are making that happen.

 

It's pretty crazy.  I can't keep track of who's a student anymore.  It's kind of like that in real life, though, too.  If you article around the same time someone's doing a 1L summer you'll always be baffled at how junior they are to you, even though you've been working there pretty much the same period of time.

 

That and I still feel like a newly minted associate.  You never really feel like you're good at anything until you're trying to help other people learn to do it.

 

I identify with this - and your experience with pre-law school jobs - so much. Like you, I've had a few jobs I hated (at one point, I started breaking my shift down into 5-minute chunks to make it feel like time was passing at all) and one job that's mostly OK, has a set schedule/decent pay/almost complete stability...but no challenge. Definitely, both are factors in why I'm going to law school next year.

 

I think my worst job was working an in-bound call center for a parcel delivery company, fielding calls from the southern US. 

 

No one ever calls because their urgent package got there just fine.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Diplock    9514

Kittyshark makes me want to simultaneously run away in fear and vomit. Seeing it ten times on a single page...bad things might happen.

 

But ... Imma Catfish!

  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
TKNumber3    1457

Without derailing too much, I just want to comment on the "how do you know you enjoy your job thing." I really think the whole "only do something you love" push that kids get exposed to is dangerous. It leads to the grass is greener situation where people get sad cause their job isn't 200% perfect and they wonder what job Y would be like. A great job is still a job in the sense that they are paying you to do something and that means there are probably parts that aren't ideal.  I totally agree you don't want to be doing a job you hate, but your job shouldn't be the greatest part of your life. You have family, hobbies, friends, etc. Enjoy what you do more days than you hate it, don't be stuck counting the minutes, and find a way for life as a whole to be enjoyable.

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Diplock    9514

Without derailing too much, I just want to comment on the "how do you know you enjoy your job thing." I really think the whole "only do something you love" push that kids get exposed to is dangerous. It leads to the grass is greener situation where people get sad cause their job isn't 200% perfect and they wonder what job Y would be like. A great job is still a job in the sense that they are paying you to do something and that means there are probably parts that aren't ideal.  I totally agree you don't want to be doing a job you hate, but your job shouldn't be the greatest part of your life. You have family, hobbies, friends, etc. Enjoy what you do more days than you hate it, don't be stuck counting the minutes, and find a way for life as a whole to be enjoyable.

 

Sure. I can get behind that. When I encourage people towards doing what they enjoy, it isn't meant to be a denial of the fact that work is still work. Between various options for work, I do think that people should always do what they enjoy most. But not everything you enjoy necessarily becomes a job either - otherwise the large majority of teenagers would by studying to be professional computer gamers. Still, within the range of things you can realistically get paid for, I maintain it makes sense to get paid to do whatever you like most.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Uriel    6939

I have found that several people regret having left the firm, apparently having come to discover that when they said "I don't like working here" what they actually were feeling was "I don't like working".

 

If you've never had a real job before, you should give any legal job extra latitude to be crappy.  All jobs are.

  • Like 9

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Diplock    9514

I have found that several people regret having left the firm, apparently having come to discover that when they said "I don't like working here" what they actually were feeling was "I don't like working".

 

If you've never had a real job before, you should give any legal job extra latitude to be crappy.  All jobs are.

 

Ya. And maybe Uriel can comment on this, because this is a semi-question semi-statement, but in my experience I've found that many large firms show a bias towards hiring straight-from-high-school candidates. In other words, students who are now entering the legal profession after following a straight path from being good in high school to being good in undergrad to being good in law school to now looking for their first real (possibly first ever) job. Now I can understand why this makes good sense from some perspectives (younger and unattached people are generally in a position to make the sacrifices required) but on other levels I see it as self-defeating. Maybe for the same reason that most people never stick with their first serious relationships ... lacking context, how can you ever settle into something if it's the first something you've ever had?

 

Is this something that firms are taking into account with hiring? Is my impression of hiring accurate, or what?

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×